Hacker IP - Limit of 3? Options

[Hutchman]

Howdy Folks,

I lurk here alot, have for years, learning from the collective wisdom all the while. I have been playing Shadowrun since it first came out at the beginning of the last Age. I've been GM'ing almost as long.

I have always liked the concept of the Decker, now the Hacker, but I haven't always been a big fan of its ingame implementation. I am not alone there, I know. So, a new edition means a new look at what it takes to be one and to bring one into a game.

I have gone over the rules for SR4 for a few days now, and I cannot find it - Is there a way for a Hacker or a Technomancer to get that 4th IP? Ar means you use your meat Initiative and IP's, Cold Sim VR means two IP's and Hot Sim VR means 3 IP's. There doesn't seem to be any other way to get that last IP. Mages can, Street Sams can, but not true riggers, and not hackers and not technomancers??

Whats up with that?

Someone, please enlighten me. Show me the error of my ways. Show me Hope.

Thanks,

The Hutchman

[Witness]

Bit daft isn't it, that a street sam or wizkid can get it and do more than a hacker or rigger. But that seems to be the way it is. Sorry!

[James McMurray]

Is there a reason why the various intiative enhancers wouldn't increase the matrix niitiative? I'm thinking specifically about the Increase Initiative spell, as the rest tend to work physically but IIRC it doesn't specify how it works.

[Moon-Hawk]

You could use edge, right?
Other than that, wait for Unwired. I'm sure it'll be in there.

[Butterblume]

Technomancers allready can have 4 IPs in VR, one of their metamagic-like powers.

For Hackers, i am sure Moon-Hawk is right and something will come up in Unwired.

[Glayvin34]

That's one of the main reasons I stopped playing a TM, no 'ware. My new character is a Hacker with Wired Reflexes 2, so he gets 4 IPs even at Cold Sim, which is nice against Black Hammer, but you don't get that +2 on everything that you do with Hot Sim. And there's addiction to worry about if your GM notices you spend all your time in Hot Sim.

There are several drugs that give you an extra IP, so those could work, but they all have lame drawbacks.

I think that TMs shouldn't loose essence for Bioware, then at least they could have a HOPE of ever increasing their stats. Otherwise, the augmented Metatype max for a TM is a slap in the face, 'cause they can't augment (yeah, yeah, pay off a mage to do it for you, that's a pain in the ass).

[Butterblume]

So i looked it up, its 'overclocking' and grants +1 response for TMs, and +1 IP while in VR.

I am pretty sure initiative enhancers don't work in VR.

Drugs ... quite an interesting point, since i can't think of a rule which prohibits the effects while in VR.

[Glayvin34]

[Butterblume]

[Glayvin34]

[Konsaki]

Maybe I missed it in one of the other posts, but a TM can get 4IP by going VR (auto hot-sim so 3IP p233) and having the "Overclocking" Echo (+1 IP for VR p238).

[Big D]

Yeah, the way I read it was that you got your meat IPs in AR, but a fixed (and possibly smaller) number of IPs in VR based on the conditions (hot sim, overclocking) that have already been covered.

Which makes absolutely no sense, but... :)

Until they clarify it, it sure looks like a TM with a good mage should just stay in AR all the time.

[Divine Virus]

yeah, and it DOES clearly state in the Wired Reflex description that wired reflexes don't stack with ANY other form of innitate inhancments.

[Glayvin34]

[Divine Virus]

Why 3 in Cold Sim?

[Glayvin34]

[Divine Virus]

But it does clearly state that Wire Reflexes cannot be combined with ANY other form of Reflex enhancement. there is no ambiguity about it. So you could houserule that you would get 3IP in could sim, but stricktly by the BBB, you would not.

[Glayvin34]

[Big D]

It looks like AR uses meat body IP.

It looks like VR of any type uses VR IP, which has its own rules.

Does that mean you can have more IP in AR than VR? Looks like it.

Seem wrong? Yep. I could see a houserule that says that hackers only get 1 IP in AR per Turn; they can use the others in meatspace, but not for any matrix actions (other than jacking out, which is a meatspace action).

[James McMurray]

No book handy, bu could it be read to mean that VR changes your base number of passes, and therefor stacks with other init enhancers? It's kind fo a technical interpretation, but would stop the problem of getting more AR actions than VR actions.

[Ranneko]

Our method is:
In AR: 1 pass, if you have multiple, only one can be used for matrix.
In Cold-Sim: 2 passes
In Hot-Sim: 3 passes
Overclocked TM: 4 passes.

[hobgoblin]

quick physical reactions would be nice for playing DDR better (shorter time between reading the arrows and having your legs hit the right pads).

and AR is kinda like DDR, only that the pads and the screen are virtual images and locations in space. to hit a AR icon, you have to move your physical hand into the required posision in space.

with VR, its all happening in your head. now, i have a feel that we will maybe see some kind of comlink overclocking addon that boosts IP in VR mode.

but SR4 was in the end about having the hacker move with the rest of the crew. therefor its practical to have him be able to have quick AR responses (or else he would be jumping in and out of VR every other action). and you disconnect the targets from the matrix while at the same time allow him to move about (wireless connections).

so for hacking a security system on the fly while in a firefight, its great to have a higher AR then VR reaction and IP. but if your trying to get in the "slow" ways, nothing beats VR (because your probe roll is 1 pass, not one hour).

both have its uses. and the TM is nasty not because of the missing comlink (alltho that helps) but because of the sprites, and that he can basicly create his programs on the fly ;)

[Monnock]

If you want a 'quick-fix' for this, I would say you can 'overclock' your com-links hot-sim (possibly requiring a hardware check if you want an extra 'hump'), thus providing an extra initiative pass while running full VR, however you take a penalty to your dice pools to resist damage while engaging in virtual combat (probably -2), as even more information is being flooded into your brain.

The only problem I see with this is that it makes technomancers even more gimp than they already are. ("Hey cool! I spent all my karma to get 1 more initiative pass!" "Dude, you so could have done that at the start of the game for free as a hacker, and been a better hacker.")

Edit: Of course, then again, they do get sprites so... meh. Bwhahaha!

[Dranem]

Another thing about Technomancers: Threading and unlimmited load rates.

A hacker can have every program on the planet, but he has to play the response game and watch how many he does load at one time. If by chance he doesn't have a particular app, then he's screwed, he can't do that action, or has to unload a program to load one he has in memory - there's not defaulting on Matrix operations.

Technomancers can Thread forms to create the program equivalents they don't already possess as complex forms. They can have access to any form they know and be running as many as they want at one time. If they need a boost, they can thread the complex form and increase the processing power.

Submersion - Make yourself even better than a mundane hacker.
Sprites - typically superior to agents and real nasty when you have more than one on yoru side.

Also:
You can't hack a technomancer.. they have no commlink, no commcode and no form of storage.
TM's can control as many drones at one time as they want.