 Continues matrix icon repair. |
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 May 14 2006, 06:16 AM
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#1
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Neophyte Runner  Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587  |
Continues matrix icon repair.
Page 218 SR4 accessing multiple nodes, when accessing multiple nodes with multiple icons engaging in combat damage applied to one counts for both. It follows that a medic program applied to one would apply to both. Thus when going on a run where you expect your icon to take damage you also send your icon to a safe place where you load an agent with a medic program that will continually repair your icon. This is a useful trick analogues to the old have a healing mage with a med kit watch your meat when youre expecting to face black ice. Edward |
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May 14 2006, 06:18 AM
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#2
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
That smacks too much of trying to cheese the system to me.
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May 14 2006, 06:28 AM
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#3
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,000 Joined: 17-November 05 From: Halifax, Canada Member No.: 7,975 |
If you had Medic loaded on your Commlink, then it could repair your over all Persona - but I wouldn't allow an Agent to be able to fix ALL damage to your Icon - only the damage that you receive in the node it's loaded in..
Now I would allow you to transfer the agent from one node to another as an action (probably simple action to call an agent to you, being able to provide the function on your next IP), that would make more sense. |
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May 15 2006, 11:19 AM
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#4
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
You know, the more I read about it the more Im convinced it is wholly legit, albeit a bit powergaming. The risk with being in multiple nodes is that you can be attacked by IC and Hackers. IC is a program and so is the Attack program they use. If you can be affected by one type of program in multiple nodes it stands to reason that you would be affected by other kind of programs as well.
If damage can be dealt in multiple nodes then healing would be affecting the icon in multiple nodes as well. So you upload an Agent into your second commlink, access it with your icon and then you go hacking into a corporate node. When damage is taken you have the agent(s) in the second commlink initiating repairs rolling Pilot+Program which would be 8D6 X Agents. One could rule that you would only be able to repair damage if the agent is in the node you have been attacked in but that would go straight against the rules written for multiple nodes. Yes, it can be used to the extremes but remember, what you can do the GM can do worse. |
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May 15 2006, 12:56 PM
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#5
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
Fix it by just allowing to repair onself.
A persona being able to repair another sounds strange to me anyways. |
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May 15 2006, 01:42 PM
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#6
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
Well, its not the persona doing the repair, it's an agent repairing the personas icon. That would be like a team mate using first aid on someone. Or a Rigger having a medical robot that can use first aid on the rigger the moment his lifesigns are dropping. |
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May 15 2006, 02:18 PM
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#7
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
I know, but we are not talkin about real life persons or things, we are talking about code. And I think a Persona/Agent/IC should only be able to repair itself, not being able to be repaired by others.
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May 15 2006, 02:23 PM
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#8
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
It would not be according to RAW but it stands to reason since it would be too easy to circumvent any kind of matrix damage.
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May 15 2006, 03:24 PM
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#9
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Target Group: Members Posts: 96 Joined: 13-April 06 Member No.: 8,459 |
That doesn't make any sense. Everything is just code, repair and many programes manipulate that code. Saying you can't completely undermines what a hacker/technomancer (or even just a programmer) is. |
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May 15 2006, 03:36 PM
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#10
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
If you want a fluff answer: You would have to give the other Agent?IC/Persona full admin rights for everything in your persona to allow it to repair your code and it would have to use your processor power to do it, as it has to check your RAM and your HD. AND it fixes an exploit.
Which, in game terms, translates into: You have to run the programme to repair you, no other can run the programme to rapair you. |
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May 15 2006, 04:32 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 371 Joined: 10-January 06 From: Regina Member No.: 8,145 |
I think the easier answer is to say that the Medic program must be run from the Node where the damage originated. I don't have a problem with an Agent healing you then, at its vulnerable to attack.
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May 15 2006, 05:10 PM
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#12
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
Youre not the only one to suggest this. I dont think it makes sense. The ay the damage works reads almost like its the same icon in multiple places, what affects it in one location affects it in all. Repairing is really the same as damaging just making things right instead of making them wrong. As to balance this will not make you immune to damage in the matrix, it just makes you highly resistant to one type of matrix damage, for the cost of the runtime for an agent that could alternatively be with you fighting to eliminate the attacking IC/hackers before they damage you in the first place. It provides no defense against black/gray or psychotropic attacks, trace programs or disconnection attempts. Edward |
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May 15 2006, 05:32 PM
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#13
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
Agents are not things. It does not cost you anything to load them up to 5 nodes, access them and let them constantly heal you AND have them with you on your hacking run. There is no "cost" in runtime. Your post makes me think that you do not understand the concept of that. This exploit makes matrix damage senseless. If you want that, ok. If not, then house rule it. The rule wasdefinately not designed to be used that way. Btw: Everybody knows, that matrix damage is only that, matrix damage. The hint about disconnect, trace and psych IC is totally out of place. |
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May 15 2006, 06:13 PM
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#14
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
My response would be that it says damage inflicted to one icon is inflicted to all icons. It doesn't say that healing is also distributed. The one might seem to follow the other, but it doesn't have to.
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May 15 2006, 07:08 PM
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#15
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
I'm okay with James' reading of the rule.
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May 16 2006, 04:16 AM
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#16
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
@ Serbitar An agent is a program and needs to be running on a comlink, you can only run a limited number of programs at a given time. Say you have the recourses to run 2 agents and your other programs on your comlink you could have both of them with you fighting or you could leave one some wear safe with your duplicate icon to repair it.
Thus with my trick you have lost an agent working beside you. The maximum number of agents you can have operating is determined buy the number and power of comlinks you poses. And my point about disconnection, trace and psych ic (as well as killer and blackout) was to indicate that you are not immune to harm in the matrix because you do this, you are only relatively immune to one type of damage you can sustain in the matrix. It provides no protection at all from those other types of attack. |
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May 16 2006, 08:15 AM
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#17
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
Negative: You can upload agents to hosts, so that they do not count towards your response. That is what I am talking about. Just go to any friendly host, upload your agent there, stay there, and let it repair you. Do this for a couple of instances (say 5) and then go to you matrix run.
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May 16 2006, 08:24 AM
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#18
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,000 Joined: 17-November 05 From: Halifax, Canada Member No.: 7,975 |
And how is this agent - that you've placed on another node and is only a bookmark in your subscription list, suppose to know when you're persona gets damaged? Agents aren't directly connected to their programmer, they do not have the connection Sprites have with their Technomancer.
If you want to run an agent that directly benefits you, you'd have to be in the node with the agent. |
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May 16 2006, 08:38 AM
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#19
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
I didnt realize you could cut an agent free like that, makes it a bit more powerful I guess,
As to how the agent will know your damaged, ether buy performing regular analyze icon actions and healing when it detects damage. Or using the somewhat more munchkin tequnike it performs the repair icon action every initiative pass regardless of weather you actually need it or not. |
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May 16 2006, 08:40 AM
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#20
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,590 Joined: 11-September 04 Member No.: 6,650 |
this should work
the "Same node" arguement means that if you take matrix damage and flee the node you were attacked in YOUR COMLINK CAN NEVER BE REPAIRED, new comm time. Sadly Hacking is all about finding the right combination of exploits, always has been, always will be. |
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May 16 2006, 08:48 AM
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#21
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
Well hacking in character is about finding exploits, should it not be the same out of character.
[ducks] Edward |
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May 16 2006, 09:15 AM
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#22
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
I donīt see the problem here. As long as damage is distributed to all your icons, the remote repair should also be possible. I would like a system where both things donīt happen better, but thats not RAW.
The required 2nd comlink (for running the agent) is also no problem IMO. Think of it as a dual-processor-system. The real fix would be upgraded options for defending a node by encryption and stealth. Cyber combat should be decided within few turns anyway, a medic program wonīt do you good if you where dumped from the site. |
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May 16 2006, 09:17 AM
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#23
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
Thats why I say:
Only programmes run by your persona can repair your persona. Simple fix. Easy, fast, understandable. @Ryu: There is no requirement for a 2nd comlink. |
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May 16 2006, 09:47 AM
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#24
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
Medic doesn't repair commlinks. It repairs icons. (Hm, sloppy rulewriting ... after all, I could just change my icon with an undamaged one using a free action :D.) So medic repairs the programms/data the icon represents. You can always reboot, so your persona will be undamaged again. Just mentioning: Repair Icon is an extended test (1 combat turn)... |
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May 16 2006, 10:00 PM
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#25
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
It's the idea that healing transfers across all icons that isn't RAW. RAW only states that damage taken transfers. People are using that to infer that damage removed also transfers, but the two aren't necessarily linked like that. |
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