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> Making money as a Runner
DarkCrisis
post May 17 2006, 02:28 PM
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Basicly a Running team is supposed to do 1 run per month. So that run has to be enough to cover every single one of thier lifestyles. Which hopefulyl they all have about the same lifestyle choice or that can get thrown out of wack.

Anyways, how else are they supposed to earn cash for the new ware upgrades and foci etc etc?

Take the weapons off the people they kill and make cash off the blackmarket? Spare paydata they find while on a run?
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WyldKarde
post May 17 2006, 02:38 PM
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Why only one run per month? Our GM recently put on his 'evil' hat as our PCs got off the plane having concluded a run in Hawai'i, only to find that instead of the downtime we were expecting we instead got another job offer almost as soon as our feet hit the asphalt. We were a little narked that we had to sit on our karma awards for a while longer, but it also means when the downtime does roll around we'll have really fat credsticks and a large stack of karma to spend on upgrades. The GM has promised an extended downtime to go with it so we can do the really time intensive training for things like attribute gains if we so choose.

Looting defeated enemies and grabbing subsidiary paydata are, IMO, a perfectly valid way to supplement your characters incomes as well. Of course, this can bite you in the ass as well. Like the time not so long ago when some of our characters came upon a warehouse full of weapons and cred while doing legwork and naturally looted the place dry. Now the local mob are wondering who looted their storehouse and how hard they can hurt them.

As for lifestyle, that's something to check in advance. When I'm designing a character for a campaign I think it's perfectly valid to ask the GM what sort of payrates he's planning to dish out and then choose my character's lifestyle accordingly. No point splashing out for a Middle or High lifestyle if he's planning one run a month with an average payout of 5k per PC.
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Thorn Black
post May 17 2006, 02:49 PM
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I also run more than one game per month. My runners take maybe 2 or 3 in a month, and these jobs cover lifestyle and expenses, and a bit left over for upgrades.

I tend to only give downtime if they want to (go off and learn new skills etc.) or need to (healing), otherwise they have the choice of a steady stream of shadow work.
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DarkCrisis
post May 17 2006, 02:55 PM
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Well yea i run more than one game per month as well. But I recall reading somewhere that SR's basicly do 1 run per month.
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Moon-Hawk
post May 17 2006, 02:59 PM
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For street level campaigns I assume "runs" happen as quickly as they can get healed up, sometimes faster.
For low-end professional runners I assume 2 runs a month.
Good runners do about 1 per month.
Of course, the runs get much more difficult and pay a lot more, so their income on a monthly basis goes up significantly, but as skill increases they tend to earn it less often and in much larger chunks.
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stevebugge
post May 17 2006, 03:28 PM
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With our group finding ways for the runners to supplement their income is encouraged, so the lifting of extra guns or consumer electronics or jewelery is semi-common. If runners need/want some special toy acquiring it usually became a mini-run itself. Under SR 3 I defined that as anything with an availability higher than 10 or a price tag higher than 100,000, with a few exceptions for vehicles. I'm still working out my cut points for SR4. Of course our game is pretty much street to low level and our group tends to gravitate towards the humor/drama/interpersonal interaction style of play over lots of action and tests.
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NightHaunter
post May 17 2006, 04:39 PM
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Runs happen in my campaign as often as seems interesting.
Usually when the team is in the middle of aquireing new kit. :D

However recently they have been hired for an entire month, and are being flown on an arcological tour of north america.

Next stop Bug Town.

After that they have to repay the rigger/hacker's loyalty 6 (Brother) contact for drones rendered.

They know this already. (He thinks his wife is charting (CHEATING) on him)

This post has been edited by NightHaunter: May 18 2006, 03:27 PM
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James McMurray
post May 17 2006, 05:39 PM
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One run is supposed to cover their lifestyle expenses, so you should really have at least 2 runs a month so the characters can have a chance to get some extra cash and buy new toys.
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GrinderTheTroll
post May 17 2006, 05:53 PM
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QUOTE (DarkCrisis)
Well yea i run more than one game per month as well. But I recall reading somewhere that SR's basicly do 1 run per month.

Welcome to Dumpshock!

Even if SR4 did state that, you can see it doesn't fit most GM/Groups mode of play.
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Shrike30
post May 17 2006, 08:14 PM
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Sometimes my players will get a stand-alone run. Sometimes, they'll get one tied into a larger campaign arc. When that arc is a fast one, they'll find that they've got 5-8 sessions of gameplay happening, sometimes all within a few days (which makes getting shot a bad thing). "Downtime" usually runs from a couple of weeks to a couple of months, depending on how well they've done and how beat up they are (well speeds it up, beat up slows it down... usually :evil: ).

My pay rate is good enough that the players tend to move to Middle, sometimes High Lifestyle, and still have enough money rolling around for gear and goodies. This also means they get put on the runs where you can get killed if you botch it up... they ain't paying you that much for milk runs.
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mdynna
post May 17 2006, 09:00 PM
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QUOTE (NightHaunter)
They know this already. (He thinks his wife is charting on him)

No, not charting! That analytical harlot! Break down that door! Tear her graph paper up, and ruin her regression analysis forumale! That'll teach her.
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Butterblume
post May 17 2006, 09:04 PM
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QUOTE (mdynna)
forumale!  That'll teach her.

I am pretty interested when you try to explain this ...
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FanGirl
post May 17 2006, 09:20 PM
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He should be glad it's only regression analysis and not, say, ANOVA. You know what that F in F-score stands for. . . . ;)
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PH3NOmenon
post May 17 2006, 10:00 PM
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out of interest, how do other gms deal with parties that contain members with different lifestyles?


when starting out or in street campaigns the diffrence in spendable nuyen is quite important, and a higher lifestyle doesn't reap much benefits (besides roleplaying issues, which are fun in and by themselves though)
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Geekkake
post May 17 2006, 10:19 PM
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QUOTE (PH3NOmenon)
out of interest, how do other gms deal with parties that contain members with different lifestyles?


when starting out or in street campaigns the diffrence in spendable nuyen is quite important, and a higher lifestyle doesn't reap much benefits (besides roleplaying issues, which are fun in and by themselves though)

I don't. The runners can have any lifestyle they damned well please, for any reason they please. They still get the same pay.
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James McMurray
post May 17 2006, 10:21 PM
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Same here. There are also difference in lifestyles. If you're trying to save a lot of money by being a squatter or living on the street that's fine. But sometimes you'll find yourself getting harassed by gangs, homeless, etc. If you're living low or higher the odds of that occuring are much smaller.
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emo samurai
post May 17 2006, 10:23 PM
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I paid my group 20,000 :nuyen: for the Invae in a Mall storyline and they were allowed to walk out with as much equipment as they could carry. This one's going to pay 60,000 :nuyen:. :D
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stevebugge
post May 17 2006, 10:26 PM
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QUOTE (PH3NOmenon)
out of interest, how do other gms deal with parties that contain members with different lifestyles?


when starting out or in street campaigns the diffrence in spendable nuyen is quite important, and a higher lifestyle doesn't reap much benefits (besides roleplaying issues, which are fun in and by themselves though)

I don't use the players lifestyle at all when determining pay for a run, I have a system based more off of the charcaters reputation. It works for my group and does tend to reward players for being frugal, but then I don't want my game just awash in cash and high end toys.

[ Spoiler ]
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Shrike30
post May 17 2006, 11:13 PM
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I've got mixed lifestyles in my group. Most are medium, there's a high or two and a low.

The guys running High usually never have to worry about things like getting a cab somewhere, paying for airfare, eating dinner in an expensive restaurant, stuff like that.

The guy running low pays out-of-pocket for things like bus fare, a burger, getting hassled on the corner, that kind of thing.

Guess whose house is more likely to get broken into?
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Red
post May 18 2006, 12:50 AM
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QUOTE (Geekkake)
QUOTE (PH3NOmenon @ May 17 2006, 05:00 PM)
out of interest, how do other gms deal with parties that contain members with different lifestyles?


when starting out or in street campaigns the diffrence in spendable nuyen is quite important, and a higher lifestyle doesn't reap much benefits (besides roleplaying issues, which are fun in and by themselves though)

I don't. The runners can have any lifestyle they damned well please, for any reason they please. They still get the same pay.

Geekake neglects to mention that his poor little team is in the middle of the "Gauntlet." 5+ runs back to back with no more than 12 hours of downtime between each job for a ~320ish BP team that had just finished barely enough jobs to get to know each other.

We'll all be blood brothers by the end of it, if we survive. Metaphorically, and literally. So much blood...
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HalloranElder
post May 18 2006, 06:47 AM
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QUOTE (DarkCrisis)
But I recall reading somewhere that SR's basicly do 1 run per month.

I've got the book in question in front of me.

Shadowrun Companion, page 99, Payment and Reward:

QUOTE
First, keep in mind that player characters will average about one shadworun per month.
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James McMurray
post May 18 2006, 06:52 AM
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Ah. Luckily we're using SR4 here, which doesn't use that companion. Give the players whatever number of runs you want. :)

By that model nobody will ever be able to buy anything because all their earned run money will go to lifestyle because you're suppsosed to earn your lifestyle's cost for a run.
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The Jopp
post May 18 2006, 07:00 AM
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Depending on payment and available time for a run the average would be more around 2-3 runs a month. Also, remember that payment for a run does not include negotiation bonus, loot, extra paydata or other useful information the team manages to gather.
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Thorn Black
post May 18 2006, 07:41 AM
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I tend to start a run roughly around the RL calender date, and then after a few sessions (we meet once a week) when the run is boxed off we have downtime up to the next RL calender date, that way I keep on top of lifestyle payments, and we average 2 completed runs a month.

I pay out about 20k per runner per game, and they make ends meet with stolen loot etc. I polled my players last night and they seem more than happy with the pay rates at the moment.
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TheOneRonin
post May 18 2006, 01:36 PM
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I've been running SR since 2nd Ed, and I've tried about 200 different ways to handle run payouts for my players.

What seems to work out best is this:

Because the runners are professionals (not gangers or car thieves), the runs generally pay well. $100,000 for a run is not unusual, especially if it requires people with unique skills. A chunk of that is usually paid up-front, and covers whatever expenditures the runners have to make in preparation for the job. The rest is profit. I vary the time between jobs, so they could get one of these per month, or one every three months. If money starts getting tight, the runners can let their fixer know they are interested in some low-level runs...the ~$25k payout sort of jobs.

It sounds like a lot of money, but the runners have a LOT of expenses. Most equipment purchased for runs has to be ditched afterwards. Most corp-owned "loot" is left where it falls. EVERY bit of corp equipment is tagged and on record...and it's difficult to move stuff like that without having it traced. Besides, I hate the "loot-mentality".

And it costs my players a lot more to live in the shadows than just their lifestyle. Bribes and payouts to gangs and organized crime, buying almost EVERYTHING off the blackmarket to minimize your datatrail, dumping huge amounts of cash into creating fake identities that usually have to be trashed after a few months of use...all of these things do a good job of siphoning off a characters income, and add to the desparation of the setting.

I use Heat and Ocean's Eleven as inspiration for planning and costing out runs.
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