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> Open-Source spell formulae?
emo samurai
post May 18 2006, 01:34 AM
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Would it work?
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Ancient History
post May 18 2006, 01:34 AM
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You've been reading my site again, haven't you?
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emo samurai
post May 18 2006, 01:37 AM
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I read it a lot, but I don't remember anything about open-sourcing...
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Kanada Ten
post May 18 2006, 01:38 AM
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emo samurai
post May 18 2006, 01:42 AM
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I didn't mean laws, I meant whether or not formulae would benefit from improvement by a gigantic open-source community the way Linux does?
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Kanada Ten
post May 18 2006, 01:49 AM
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More descriptive thread openers would be nice.

And not much, IMO. Magic is a highly personal art combined with science, some bizarre combination of calculus and poetry, faith and ritual. I suppose a group working on a spell formula could get +1 dice pool for every member, using rules similar to ritual spellcasting.
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James McMurray
post May 18 2006, 02:07 AM
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What if the spell formulae available for purchase already include having been worked on in an open source environment?
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Dranem
post May 18 2006, 02:50 AM
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As there are now professors and doctorates in Thaumaturgy, I could see an Open-Source magic group to be shunned or looked down upon by the more established 'experts' in the field of magic.

Effectively you are looking at a broad-spectrum magic group, so the concept is rather intreguing :)
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mfb
post May 18 2006, 02:55 AM
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well, there are professors and doctorates of computer science as well--many of whom are Linux-users.

that said, i doubt an open-source formula would get above F6 or so, and only for non-damaging spells. the trade of formulae for damaging spells is illegal without a license in most jurisdictions, i believe.
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Fix-it
post May 18 2006, 03:09 AM
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QUOTE (mfb)
the trade of formulae for damaging spells is illegal without a license in most jurisdictions, i believe.

I've got a bridge for sale... interested? :D
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mfb
post May 18 2006, 03:12 AM
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haha. well, that might not stop shadowrunners, true. but it will generally retard the number of legitimate mages who take part.
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Fix-it
post May 18 2006, 03:16 AM
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QUOTE (mfb)
haha. well, that might not stop shadowrunners, true. but it will generally retard the number of legitimate mages who take part.

not even!

they really can't PROVE you know a spell unless they catch you using it right?

so you spread the high end ones by word-of-mouth.
kinda like we did floppy/cd trades in the days before CD burners and anything faster than 56K. it wasn't really worth loading 4 floppies to FTP (eg, writing it down) when you could just hand it off to some guy across town.
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mfb
post May 18 2006, 03:20 AM
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no, but they can certainly prove that the formula itself was posted to a public board by you, unless you've got some decking skillz. we're not talking about the illegality of casting the spell, we're talking about the illegality of sharing the formula with others.

you could spread high-end ones by word-of-mouth, and mages who are friends might do that. but word-of-mouth is not going to give you very wide distribution, which means open-sourcing the formula will be largely useless, as you won't have lots of brilliant magical minds working on improving it.
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James McMurray
post May 18 2006, 03:35 AM
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QUOTE (Dranem)
As there are now professors and doctorates in Thaumaturgy, I could see an Open-Source magic group to be shunned or looked down upon by the more established 'experts' in the field of magic.

My professor in college spent 20+ years working on high end systems (some of them cutting edge military grade stuff). She could easily have been considered an established expert. Open source to her was one of the best things known to man.

Generally speaking professors get paid crap compared to others in their field. Open Source frequently means free or little cost, making it a good prospect to an underpaid person. There will also be people who want to advance knowledge, especially in academia. Those folks would also be huge fans of open source.
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SL James
post May 18 2006, 03:36 AM
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QUOTE (mfb @ May 17 2006, 09:20 PM)
no, but they can certainly prove that the formula itself was posted to a public board by you, unless you've got some decking skillz. we're not talking about the illegality of casting the spell, we're talking about the illegality of sharing the formula with others.

That's insane! That's like saying the source code for a program to crack encryption is illegal and distributing it is a federal cri... Oh, wait.

Yeah. Expect the ATTF to kick down your door if it's a restricted spell.
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James McMurray
post May 18 2006, 03:38 AM
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This has to be one of the weirdest weeks ever. I've agreed with SLJames, blakkie, and mfb within two days. Now if only Cain would post something I could agree with we can finish out all 4 prophecies of the apocalypse. :)

Translation without smarminess: I agree with SLJames's last post. :)
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Smilin_Jack
post May 18 2006, 03:57 AM
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What about Magicknet and Magick Undernet?

QUOTE (SOTA 63 @ pg 31)

Welcome to Magicknet!
This is the place for online magic discussions, peer-approval and open-source formulae!
Please remember to abide by the rules in the Terms of Service and enjoy your stay!

Welcome to Magick Undernet.
Wipe your feet as you come in the door. Remember, the Decker on the Threshold knows
who you are and can always find you.


I figure if Magicknet was going around offering spell formulae for legal spells.... Magick Undernet was probably doing the same thing for restricted spells. ;)
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Fix-it
post May 18 2006, 03:59 AM
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QUOTE (SL James)
QUOTE (mfb @ May 17 2006, 09:20 PM)
no, but they can certainly prove that the formula itself was posted to a public board by you, unless you've got some decking skillz. we're not talking about the illegality of casting the spell, we're talking about the illegality of sharing the formula with others.

That's insane! That's like saying the source code for a program to crack encryption is illegal and dsitributing it is a federal cri... Oh, wait.

Yeah. Expect the ATTF to kick down your door if it's a restricted spell.

O RLY???

distributed, open source programs have cracked several encryption codes over the last few years, inclucing enigma, the old german cipher, and several other encrypted challenges.
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Kanada Ten
post May 18 2006, 04:02 AM
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And according to the DMA, their creation and distribution are crimes once they begin to crack encryption designed to secure copyrights.

QUOTE
...up to five years in prison and a fine of US$500,000...
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Fix-it
post May 18 2006, 04:09 AM
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that's pretty stupid. it's like saying that owning a gun is illegal once you start shooting at someone.

which actually makes sense. bugger. just shot myself down.
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emo samurai
post May 18 2006, 05:04 AM
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They could just give the formulae to a few people, then those people give those spells to a few people; it's like Pay It Forward with fireballs! I'd assume that sort of network would actually disseminate the formulae VERY quickly; maybe a few hundred people within a week, with each one knowing only the person who gave it to him directly and being more or less trustworthy enough not to give it to just anybody. Kind of like the drug trade and how it kind of owns the government when it comes to the drugs sold/drugs found ratio.

And would these formulae be better or worse than corp-made ones?
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mfb
post May 18 2006, 05:09 AM
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the thing with the drug trade is, there's money involved. people buy the drugs, therefore people make money moving the drugs. with open-source stuff, there's no real motivation, unless the trade is actually open.
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emo samurai
post May 18 2006, 05:11 AM
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Open? You mean without risk? Maybe there are splinter magic groups who are against the corporatizatin of magic that make and refine spell formulae, distribute them to their friends outside the group, and then those people are like, "What the hell, I'll give this to my friends too." I mean, with magic formulae, cops are going to be MUCH less suspicious of a few tribal-looking scrawls on paper that you could say is artwork than they will be of powder in bags. I'd say there's much less risk with fireball 8.0 than there is with heroin.
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James McMurray
post May 18 2006, 05:36 AM
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Open source formulae would be like pirated software today. Lots of people doing it just because they want to stick it to the man. For the most part though I think what you get for free would be worse then what you could buy. Two reasons:

1) Think of Open Source spell formulae as Linux. Free, stable, does what it's supposed to. Unfortunately you need a doctorate in computer science to try and install the thing from source code. The spell formula you buy is like Linux Red Hat: user friendly, easy to install, does what it's supposed to do with a spiffy GUI instead of a command line.

2) Game balance. This may not mean much from an emo samurai standpoint, but the costs for spell formula are a limiting factor. Tossing them out the window puts a strain on game balance.
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mfb
post May 18 2006, 05:39 AM
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sure, like i said--if you're friends with another mage, you might work on spells together. or if you're in a small network of mages, or whatever. but as far as actually making a fireball spell formula public knowledge, where anyone who's interested can view it and speak up with their own additions and improvments--in other words, making the spell open source--i don't see that happening very often, with dangerous spells.
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