 Rape Prevention, Keep it civil, folks |
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 May 19 2006, 02:27 PM
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#51
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Running Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,353 Joined: 5-June 02 Member No.: 2,840  |
Jeez...seriously, how difficult is it to get through one's head - NO MEANS NO! How can a guy, barring such things like the asthma attack above, possibly have so much trouble realizing the nature of what he's doing? I'm interested in how many of those 84% who said it was "definitely not rape" really misinterpreted things and how many of those are just sociopathic bastards trying to find a way out. |
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May 19 2006, 02:50 PM
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#52
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Target Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 9-April 06 From: Ca Member No.: 8,442 |
Because no doesn't always mean no. I'll play the bad guy for the moment and point out to those who haven't done much dating that a large number of women, for some reason far beyond my grasp, just love to send out an endless number of what can be best described as mixed signals. Confuse the hell out of a guy who is already intoxicated and "No" quickly loses any and all meaning. As was already pointed out you can't always blame rape entirely on men, though in certain cases you can. I will also point out that believing you are incapable of the act of rape is one of the worst things you can ever do and is probably what most of that 84% had in their heads already. I'm not going to go any futher than that though. Trying to end rape is a really cute cause but much like war, terrorism and animal cruelty its here to stay. |
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May 19 2006, 02:55 PM
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#53
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,353 Joined: 5-June 02 Member No.: 2,840 |
You've gotta be fuckin' joking... :grr: :grr: :grr: |
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May 19 2006, 03:08 PM
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#54
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,095 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ontari-airee-o Member No.: 1,115 |
I would like to point out, that if she was using one of those devices, and wanted intercourse, she would have removed it, so you could take that as intent, (didn't say consent because decisions can flip back and fourth) if you get stuck in one, then no meant no. |
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May 19 2006, 04:23 PM
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#55
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Would it be possible to have monowire underwear? If they try to get them out of their way their fingers land on the ground.
Every woman should have a troll named Bubba following them around. This troll would have a constant headware commlink singal with that woman. His (or her) job is to listen to her mental dialogue when she's saying No. If she really means it, he lets the guy know. This would have two primary benefits. One, you're gonna know if she really means "no," Two, lots of trolls get jobs, but only if they're willing to change their name to Bubba. Likewise, every man could have a troll named Babette following him around with the same setup. We could give every dog and cat a barghest or hellhound gaurdian with behavioral modification cyberware keyed to the sexual hormones of the gaurdian. On the original topic: education and "keep it in your pants" would fix everything. Unfortunately as others have said it isn't always possible. I personally feel that someone without that amount of self control should be locked away until their psyches are repaired, but the only way to know they lack that control is to have it actually happen, which doesn't prevent the rape. It might prevent future rapes. |
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May 19 2006, 04:57 PM
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#56
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 684 Joined: 8-April 06 From: My dorm room Member No.: 8,438 |
Who's going to protect the trolls, then?
Plus, I bet that it would get very confusing if there were a bunch of trolls with the same name walking around. I know that my great-great grandpa had problems because of this: his original name was Carl Carlson, but then he joined the Swedish navy and found that there were so many guys who were also named Carl Carlson that he had to change his last name in order to avoid confusion. Then again, we also have plenty of Mr. Johnsons running around, so maybe Bubbas wouldn't be all that much of an adjustment. It's an interesting concept. I also think the monofilament panties idea is cool, though I doubt that monofilament clothing would be very comfortable to wear. :eek: |
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May 19 2006, 06:16 PM
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#57
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 976 Joined: 16-September 04 From: Near my daughters, Lansdale PA Member No.: 6,668 |
I am so glad you said that before I did. That is offensive beyond words and beyond beinmg wrong is just the sort of defense use by the sort of creep who then tries to justify violating a woman. |
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May 19 2006, 06:20 PM
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#58
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Duh buh wha?
The fact that it isn't a justifiable defense doesn't mean it isn't true, people. ~J |
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May 19 2006, 06:22 PM
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#59
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
while i agree that it might be possible to prevent some rape by providing counselling to men (or boys, rather, as it's easier to teach kids), in the end, the only person really responsible for your safety is that you.
indeed. while the guy in these situations is 100% guilty, the girl in these situations is a fucking idiot. if an animal gets loose and mauls someone, you put the animal down. but for chrissake, what were you doing playing around in front of a dangerous animal to begin with!? many people have this strange idea that somehow, their personal safety should be taken for granted. that violent things happen to someone else. that if they go walking down a dark alley alone, or--more likely--tease a drunk stranger, nothing bad will happen. you are not safe. there are no bars on the cages in real life. punish the perpetrators, definitely--but your safety is your job. |
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May 19 2006, 06:42 PM
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#60
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
It's very easy for even the most watchful person to be caught off gaurd by someone who turns out to be dangerous. This is especially true of the person doesn't think they're dangerous and is convinced that what they're doing is right for the situation. It's impossible to pickup on signs of deception when there's no deception being done.
I do agree with you that safety is the primary concern of the person involved, but it isn't always possible. Even Snow Fox and her gun could be caught off gaurd and raped in the right (or should I say wrong) circumstances. Both sides of the fence need to be covered. To use the animal analogy: we should tame the animal while also teaching the person how to behave around animals. |
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May 19 2006, 06:48 PM
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#61
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
agreed. but in the end, society is not and cannot be directly responsible for your personal safety. i think that if someone is truly interested in not being raped (or otherwise having their personal safety assaulted), they ought to take measures so that the many cases where proper self-defense could change the outcome of a bad situation, they'll have the tools at their disposal to do it.
especially if they want to perform such hare-brained activities as saying 'no' to a drunk person of the opposite sex while continuing to be sexually flirtatious with them. |
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May 19 2006, 06:58 PM
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#62
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
hmm, i think maybe i should start using a metal walking stick from now on. allways handy for beating someone up with, and will not scream weapon like a knife or gun...
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May 19 2006, 07:25 PM
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#63
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
True, which is why mental preparedness should be a part of any self defense training. All the technique in the world won't help you if you're too scared, surprised, or emotionally attached to use it. |
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May 19 2006, 07:45 PM
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#64
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 976 Joined: 16-September 04 From: Near my daughters, Lansdale PA Member No.: 6,668 |
I am not supporting women who act stupidly but the ultimate responsibility is with the man who does the crime. Remember Mike Tyson's conviction? Everyone agreed the woman was an air head, but he was still guilty. Even a complete bubble brain with less common sense than a grain of rice does not 'deserve' to be violated because she is stupid. To say anything else is like saying a woman invited a rape because of how she dresses. It is truly offensive. martial arts training more than anything means when surprised you react, not freeze. SF is one of the most aware-of-her-surrounding people I know. We have another friend, Lisa. When someone tried to mug her in the subway, she just stabbed the mugger in the throat with her umbrella. She was labelled the "Totes Vigilante." |
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May 19 2006, 07:58 PM
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#65
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
you find it offensive that people get hurt if they act stupidly in dangerous situations? guess what: if a women dresses provocatively, acts provocative towards drunk or otherwise uninhibited people of the opposite sex, and then wanders off alone, there's a better chance that she's going to get raped than a woman who does not do these things. you can be offended by that all you like, but it doesn't change its basic truth. |
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May 19 2006, 08:04 PM
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#66
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 976 Joined: 16-September 04 From: Near my daughters, Lansdale PA Member No.: 6,668 |
And it does not change the fact that the ultimate blame falls on the man who did it.
Sure she is stupid. She is more at risk than a woman who stays home. But ultimately it falls on the sexist pig that thinks it is an invitation to violate her. |
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May 19 2006, 08:06 PM
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#67
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i'm not saying it does. and i'm not saying that i would take that invitation. but it is an invitation.
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May 19 2006, 08:07 PM
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#68
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Man In The Machine Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,264 Joined: 26-February 02 From: I-495 S Member No.: 1,105 |
Ok boys and girls, lets simmer down now. No sense geting another semi-topical thred locked because of flameing.
On that note however, Im fully in support of Bubba the Troll safty. |
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May 19 2006, 08:09 PM
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#69
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
I should include him in my campaign!!!
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May 19 2006, 08:33 PM
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#70
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
I beileve I've seen emntion of Bubba the Love Troll around here. You may want to do a search on that. Having Love Trolls and antirapist trolls both named Bubba could cuse some amusing confusions. Well, amusing from the outside. Probably not all that amusing to the participants. :D
"Hey Vinnie. I need Bubba to go to the club with my daughter. Bobby said he was really good so I'd like the same one he used." Unbeknownst to Daddy bobby has strange sexual tastes. His referral was talking about the troll he sends out with his wife, but Bubba Inc.'s operator doesn't know. :0 |
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May 19 2006, 09:10 PM
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#71
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,109 Joined: 16-October 03 From: Raleigh, NC Member No.: 5,729 |
Let me put mfb's example in a different context.
If some rich guy is slumming in the bad part of town, flashing his stacks of cash and expensive jewelry, is anyone gonna feel sorry for him if he gets mugged? Probably not. Did the mugger committ a crime? Most certainly. Is the rich guy a victim? Most certainly. Should the mugger get prosecuted and sent to jail/prison? Most certainly. Did the Rich guy's stupidity contribute to him putting himself in a situation that allowed him to easily be victimized? Most certainly. I have two daughters, and I make it a point to educate them on how to protect themselves and not get into bad situations in the first place. I belive that THEY are responsible for keeping themselves safe when I'm not around. I think people need to take more responsibility for their actions and not feel that the world is a smiley, happy place where there are no bad people and as long as you are a good person, nothing bad will happen to you. |
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May 19 2006, 09:36 PM
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#72
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
I don't blame the victim, ever. Sure, if someone is stupid, it increases the odds that something bad will happen to them, but it doesn't make someone else's bad actions their fault.
I disagree with the whole "sex education can stop men from being rapists" attitude, too. I think seeing all men as potential rapists is a big insult to most men. And I don't think any rapist is going to go to a college presentation and stop being a rapist. Rapists are not like most people - they are subhuman filth, and death is too good for them. They don't need counseling, they need a bullet in the head. The only things that consistently reduce the rates of violent crimes are incarceration, and vigilance on the part of potential victims. Now, to bring this back to Shadowrun... How do you think near-universal commlinks would affect such crimes? I mean, every victim could be chatting with 3 different people, or taking a video and sound recording of you - it would have to make some would-be perpetrators think twice. |
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May 19 2006, 10:02 PM
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#73
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
I agree completely. There are things you can do that will lower your chances of being raped / mugged / burglarized / etc. But in the end the fault rests entirely on the shoulders of the person who commited the crime. Sex education could work, if done at an early age. College presentations will never work. Grade school curriculums with pre-K emphasis on things (done at their intellectual level of course) is what I think needs to happen. |
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May 19 2006, 10:03 PM
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#74
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
oh, give me a break. "rapists are not like most people" my butt. they're exactly like most people--they're like anyone who has ever lost control and done some thing wrong. re: blame and fault, this isn't about blame or fault. sure, like i've said, the rapist is 100% guilty. and the victim, in many situations, is 100% moron for putting herself or himself in the situation to begin with. |
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May 19 2006, 10:20 PM
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#75
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,353 Joined: 5-June 02 Member No.: 2,840 |
What situation? The situation of thinking she could *gasp* be ALONE with a trusted friend?! Oh god, she's soooooooo stupid! :please: |
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