 Rape Prevention, Keep it civil, folks |
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 May 19 2006, 10:26 PM
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#76
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Immortal Elf  Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670  |
yes, exactly, that situation. do you not understand that the world is a dangerous place? that no one is guaranteed to be safe? are you really naive enough to think that just because you trust someone, they won't hurt you? |
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May 19 2006, 10:27 PM
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#77
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
You are not merely wrong, you are a part of the problem. ~J |
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May 19 2006, 10:27 PM
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#78
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
mfb: All right, I guess in a way doing bad things is all too human. But I was reacting to the failed "rehabilitation" model that sends too many rapists and other violent criminals out to commit the same crimes again, because they've had "counseling". I've seen too many repeat offenders to have much faith in that.
And yeah, education could help if done at an early age, when attitudes are still being formed. I don't think it does much good when someone already is that kind of criminal, though. Now, in Shadowrun terms, what kind of "rehabilitation" do you think violent criminals might receive? A simsense recording from a victim's POV? Subliminal messages or psychotropic programming? What kind of side effects would there be (A Clockwork Orange, anyone)? Would the "cure" be worse than the disease in some cases? On the flip side, could some evil NPC use subliminal mods in a simchip to turn people into violent criminals? |
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May 19 2006, 10:27 PM
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#79
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Let's take this back to the more common rape scenario with the universal commlinks (the eyepod). We have - today, 2006 - a computer controlled monitoring system in Chicago that uses cameras and visual recognition software to determine crimes in progress: So, we can assume it is possible to design software that would combine data from sensors (in the home, on the person[s]), which could analyze situations to various degrees. Rape Prevention, Personal Relationship, Counselling, Automagic Panic Button - even without psychotropic effects, universal commlinks could change the way we interact on a fundamental level. The little devil on your shoulder casually says, "That no meant no." I was also thinking that putting nasties like Vagina Dentata and your Ares Markmanship score in your personal profile might help deter the (rare) scouting or serial rapists.
:rotfl:
Like your ubiquitous "internet etiquette" interjections? This post has been edited by Kanada Ten: May 19 2006, 10:40 PM |
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May 19 2006, 10:30 PM
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#80
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i agree that rehabilitation doesn't always work. as for chipping people to turn then into violent criminals, it's easily possible in SR. check out Winternight. |
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May 19 2006, 10:32 PM
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#81
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,353 Joined: 5-June 02 Member No.: 2,840 |
Actually, I saw a study once that recidivism rates for sex offenders are actually lower than that of most other crimes (something like 19%) Then again, maybe your line of work exposes you mostly to that 19% or something; I dunno. |
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May 19 2006, 10:35 PM
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#82
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,577 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gwynedd Valley PA Member No.: 1,221 |
In defense of this nitwit, a lot of people have talked about women acting stupidly being responsible for their fate. That having been said, you are clearly not saying that. You have just said "mixed signals." The usual defense of a cretin who decided he knows better what a woman wants than she knows herself. It is in the face of these 'ambiguous signals' that the phrase 'no means no' came out. It is NOT ambigous. The whole idea is that it is a direct statement with which there is not risk of misinterpretation. Saying it "really cute" to want ot prevent rape? You are not just wrong, you're offensive. let's just take it to the logical end of your claim that there came be ambiguity in the word: NO. I hold a blade to your testicles and ask if you'd like me to cut them off? Remember, according to you, no doesn't always mean no. so YOU out of the gene pool! |
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May 19 2006, 10:44 PM
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#83
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i really don't understand how anyone can be offended by the idea that doing stupid things in dangerous situations will get you hurt. nobody gets offended when i say that jumping off cliffs is likely to kill you. as far as "no means no", i think this statement is as much a warning for possible victims as it is for possible rapists. if you don't want to have sex with someone, you need to state that in clear terms that can't be misunderstood. that doesn't mean saying "no" while you snuggle up against him. that doesn't mean coming up for air in the middle of a deep kiss and saying "no", then playing more tonsil hockey. that means saying "no" and getting out of the situation. if you say "no" but act "yes", you're hurting yourself. unless you say "no" and back it up with action, many guys aren't going to stop. is that right? does that mean the guy has the right to keep going? no, of course not. but the basic fact is that if you are not strong enough, mentally and emotionally, to remove yourself from a situation before it gets out of hand, what makes you think he's going to be? |
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May 19 2006, 10:49 PM
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#84
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Is there something so many of you are finding particularly difficult about grasping responsibility as something more complex than facile dichotomy?
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May 19 2006, 10:50 PM
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#85
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
which "you"?
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May 19 2006, 10:53 PM
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#86
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Yeah, that got massively instaposted.
So, HMHVV Hunter, Snow_Fox, and I'm sure many others, try this: culpability of the criminal is not mutually exclusive of broader responsibility of the society (including, yes, the victim) that creates an environment that makes that crime possible. This extends well beyond rape. |
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May 19 2006, 11:25 PM
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#87
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
I just had a thought about ubiquitous AR... Cyber Rape. Sort of an extreme form of a Spam Attack. To be really "effective" the victim needs to accept simsense feed, but that's common among club goers. Worse, the perpetrator could be watching from miles away and using agents to do the dirty work. |
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May 19 2006, 11:27 PM
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#88
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
LOL! I know I wouldn't try to rape someone with a broadcasting concealed carry license and vagina dentata. But this is Shadowrun, the world of bleak hopelessness. That's a broadcast invitation to the truly degenerate. |
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May 19 2006, 11:28 PM
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#89
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Does Strange Days ring any bells? |
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May 19 2006, 11:32 PM
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#90
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Acting so bad I could only watch 10 minutes of it... But I could guess the plot had something to do with rapesims? I'm sure those exist (where someone with a simrig is raped... by someone with a simrig), but AR makes random rape possible - though I suppose it was always possible with VR.
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May 19 2006, 11:41 PM
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#91
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
It was about a serial killer that made you wear trodes so he could project his experiences of killing you into your mind while he was doing it. Really fucked up shit, and I rarely curse. :D
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May 19 2006, 11:44 PM
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#92
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
What about a high tech gang's version of a "jump in" or "beat in". They play you the BTL sim of someone being raped, mutilated, and beat to death (while they all experience the other side). If you survive the chip, you're in the gang.
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May 20 2006, 12:00 AM
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#93
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
could do the same thing with illusion spells, for a wizzer gang.
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May 20 2006, 12:02 AM
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#94
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Illusionary rape and virtual rape... How do you prove a crime that only exists in the mind?
Spell signatures and data tracking? A few seconds to Cleanse the first, and almost too easy to fake the latter... This post has been edited by Kanada Ten: May 20 2006, 12:28 AM |
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May 20 2006, 12:03 AM
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#95
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
That's, uh... an interesting thought. I can't really imagine any gang that would want a member to live through that not feeling it would be appropriate just to beat them in themselves, though...
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May 20 2006, 12:19 AM
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#96
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
*shrug* real-world gang initiations sometimes include real rape. going through something like that so that the perpetrator(s) will accept you isn't palatable to you (or me)--but, then, we're not the type of people who'd be interested in joining a gang to begin with.
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May 20 2006, 01:49 AM
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#97
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,577 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gwynedd Valley PA Member No.: 1,221 |
The key flaw in your argument is that the cliff is not an active agent. It doesn't pull itself out from under the victim. The rapist makes an active choice to "meddle" with another person. Sure someone being stupid is stupid, but being in the state of stupidity does not mean the person sacrifices the right to life and liberty. If that were were true the whole lot of you rapist apologists running around here would be on the engandered list. |
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May 20 2006, 02:01 AM
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#98
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
Snow Fox, i'm not apologizing for rapists. i'm simply saying that it's unrealistic to act stupid in dangerous situations and expect to have nothing bad happen. if you like, i can change it from "jumping off a cliff" to "teasing hungry animals". it's a fact of life that if you are stupid enough to do something dangerous, you are probably going to get hurt.
if that happens, yes, punish the rapist. he's 100% guilty. but punishing a criminal after the fact does not prevent the crime from being committed. if you want to prevent rape, don't put yourself in situations where being raped is more likely. this is not about blame, or fault or anything else--it's about not getting raped. you, Snow Fox, understand this already at some level. i know this because you carry a gun and are trained in its use. it boils down to a very simple question: who is responsible for your safety? |
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May 20 2006, 02:03 AM
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#99
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,901 Joined: 19-June 03 Member No.: 4,775 |
Are you deliberately ignoring everything you keep responding to?
The crime of the rapist does not obviate the victim of all possible responsibility any more than the victim's behavior obviates the rapist of guilt. These are not mutually exclusive. Responsibility is not a dichotomy. |
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May 20 2006, 02:08 AM
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#100
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
Part of preventing a crime could be having an intolerant stance towards it by the majority of society. Thus we could argue that even looking honestly at the issue, removing the black and white quality of it, might damage the natural pressure against rape... However, that's a tough sell.
[e] Yet, a large problem is the guilt felt by rape victims, adding to this by suggesting they really are guilty when not even half report the crime is probably not going to help anything (it doesn't matter if guilt != responsibility, that's a complex issue to indoctrinate). It would be better to direct responsibility at society and the rapist until crime reporting is much closer to crimes committed. Thus, no more calling rape victims stupid. This post has been edited by Kanada Ten: May 20 2006, 02:15 AM |
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