 Sustaining Focus and Concentration |
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 May 23 2006, 08:57 PM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 13-March 06 Member No.: 8,371  |
When a mage is sustaining a spell, the GM has the option of making them roll to keep sustaining when their concentration is broken, e.g. when they take damage (see step 7, p174 of the rulebook).
Do you think that the mage's player should still have to roll if they have had the mage cast the sustained spell through a sustaining focus? The reason I ask is that there is a mage in the group I run and he likes to cast invisibility through a sustaining focus. I know that there are lots of ways around invis and also that the spell could be dispelled by another mage (or whatever) etc. I liked the fact that if he was sustaining the spell himself and was unlucky enough to get seen and shot, the spell might fail, but this doesn't appear to be the case when casting through a sus-focus as it is doing the work for him. My preferred option at the moment is to say that although the sus-focus takes away the need to concentrate on the spell to sustain it, it is still the mage that is actually responsible for keeping it going and if he gets shot, he will have to roll for concentration. What do you all think? -edited for clarity- |
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May 23 2006, 09:01 PM
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#2
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Target Group: Members Posts: 30 Joined: 6-April 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,433 |
To my mind, the whole point of a sustaining focus is that it does all the work for the spellcaster once the spell is actually cast. No need to roll to sustain it, even when distracted by those irritating bullet wounds. The nuyen cost, karma bonding and astral vulnerability all nicely offset this tremendous advantage.
Of course, if you want to be teh evil, you could rule that it will sustain the spell if the mage in question is knocked unconscious through damage. Their chummers would have a hard time administering first aid if they can't even find the poor slot. :evil: |
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May 23 2006, 09:03 PM
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#3
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,026 Joined: 23-November 05 From: Seattle (Really!) Member No.: 7,996 |
That's a take that I hadn't considered before. I can see some potential benefits in balancing out magic a bit, and it's a believeable explanation. I guess it just comes down to how badly you think magic is being abused in your game whether or not you implement it. Of course there are some other options to keep mages from running around with tons of sustained spells up constantly, wards and astral patrols being the most common.
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May 23 2006, 09:10 PM
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#4
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,026 Joined: 23-November 05 From: Seattle (Really!) Member No.: 7,996 |
That's a good point: Don't let players have it both ways, if the fcous is going to sustain the spell through injury it can sustain them through unconciousness too. Only death will break the bonding and end the focus's ability to draw energy. I may talk to my group about some of these ideas. |
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May 24 2006, 01:12 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 360 Joined: 18-March 02 From: Plymouth UK. Member No.: 2,408 |
Hummm.
:vegm: |
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May 24 2006, 03:28 PM
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#6
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
I think I disagree slightly with you on this. Only death will break the bonding: agree. But removal from the subjet's person will deactivate the focus and end the spell. The focus will still be bonded to the owner, but it needs to be in contact with the subject to remain active. Right? Or am I thinking of SR3 again. Wait, let me rephrase that: I am definitely thinking of SR3, but did that change? |
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May 24 2006, 03:31 PM
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#7
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,026 Joined: 23-November 05 From: Seattle (Really!) Member No.: 7,996 |
I don't know that it has, and I believe you are correct about removing the focus deactivating it. Situationally however removing a focus from an unconscious invisible mage is almost as difficult as performing first-aid on said mage. |
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May 24 2006, 03:37 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 360 Joined: 18-March 02 From: Plymouth UK. Member No.: 2,408 |
Can anyone confirm that consciousness is not a requirement for having an active focus?
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May 24 2006, 03:59 PM
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#9
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
The rules don't list any such requirement. In fact, it doesn't even state that the focus deactivate on the magician's death ... but that should probably better be discussed after the release of the magic book :D.
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May 24 2006, 04:11 PM
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#10
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
Nope. Even did multiple searches on the PDF. It says that a focus deactivates if separated from the bonded owner, but nothing about a magician being asleep. I suppose you could say that the owner has to be awake, because in order to activate it he must be ... Awakened. =) |
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May 24 2006, 04:16 PM
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#11
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,026 Joined: 23-November 05 From: Seattle (Really!) Member No.: 7,996 |
So does that mean an alarmclock is required for activating a focus? :silly:
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May 24 2006, 04:17 PM
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#12
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
I would agree that consciousness is irrelevant. I would suggest, however, that death would end the spell. My argument is thus: A mage casts a spell on Jeff (who may or may not be the mage) Jeff is the subject of the spell, and deals with the spell as the subject should. Jeff dies. Jeff is now not Jeff, but rather a Jeff-shaped chunk of meat, magically speaking. This chunk of meat is not subject to spells in the way that a metahuman is, but rather is now in the realm of object resistance, since chunk of meat is an object. Since the nature of the subject has changed, fundamentally (again, as far as spell targeting is concerned) the spell is no longer valid.
Hmmm, I'm not sure about that, though. Might depend on the type of spell. |
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May 24 2006, 04:17 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 360 Joined: 18-March 02 From: Plymouth UK. Member No.: 2,408 |
Thanks for confirmation.
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May 24 2006, 05:21 PM
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#14
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Target Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 13-March 06 Member No.: 8,371 |
So, to get the thread back on track...
If the mage was sustaining invis himself and was unlucky enough to get seen and shot, he might, just might lose concentration and drop the spell - which means that a mundane had some way of getting rid of the spell (a good thing I think). However, with the rules as written, if the mage casts the invis through a sustaining focus, even if he was spotted and shot he doesn't lose the spell - which means that the only way the spell ends is if another awakened being disrupts it and mundanes just have to put up with a permanently invisible mage :(. My original question could still use some more replies... Do you think that the mage should still have to roll for concentration if they get shot but have cast the sustained spell through a sustaining focus? |
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May 24 2006, 05:22 PM
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#15
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
Waitaminute. Back up the monkey truck a second.
I assume you mean in the situation of an unconscious magician and acknowledging that removing the focus and re-bonding it would break said original bond, ne? |
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May 24 2006, 05:31 PM
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#16
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
No, AFAIK, per the RAW, they could find his body *somehow*, search it, and remove the sustaining focus. The focus will immediately deactivate and the spell will end. It will still be bonded to the mage, however, so when he wakes up he can recast and be fine, he's not out any karma. I get the impression that there's some confusion as to the difference between active/inactive and bonded/unbonded. |
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May 24 2006, 05:39 PM
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#17
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Target Group: Members Posts: 40 Joined: 13-March 06 Member No.: 8,371 |
Perhaps I wasn't being too clear in my original post... The mage gets shot but NOT killed, just injured. There's no body to search for - just an invisible mage with a minor wound. I agree that a mundane could take a focus off a mage to disrupt a spell, but they would have to have some knowledge of magic to be aware of foci and some idea what/where the focus was - not much chance. |
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May 24 2006, 05:43 PM
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#18
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Oh, now I understand you. Yeah, that's pretty accurate, then.
The only thing I'd add is that I would assume that it doesn't take a knowledge skill in magic to know what a sustaining focus is. As long as someone wasn't "6th world unaware", I'd expect that their existance is common knowledge. Recognizing one could be tricky, though, as most people get their magical education from Karl Kombatmage. |
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May 24 2006, 06:14 PM
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#19
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,026 Joined: 23-November 05 From: Seattle (Really!) Member No.: 7,996 |
Actually Just removing the focus from the mages person would just end the spell, not unbond the focus. However, yes I was ignoring this chain of events for simplicity. EDIT: Ok re-reading the above answer that actually made my answer more confusing not less. So to answer Aaron yes I was acknowledging that removing the focus from the mages person breaks deactivates the focus (not un-bonds) and ends the spell. However I simply did not mention this possibility to save time and effort based on the fact that removing an invisible focus from an unconcious invisible mage would be almost as difficult as bandaging an unconcious invisible mage. |
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May 24 2006, 06:25 PM
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#20
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
No. As someone mentioned before ;). |
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May 24 2006, 06:59 PM
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#21
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Target Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 19-May 06 Member No.: 8,576 |
Not really anything to do with the RAW one way or the other but I thought I'd throw this out there. Might have gone off topic to boot so apologies.
If invisibility is becoming a serious hassle and you end up having to always throw a mage into the mix to counter it, there are other solutions. Drones with non-visual but pinpoint accurate ways of targeting someone. Cybernetic eyes with the same. Or a mystic SOTA advance where some clever labcoat invents a semi-awakened spraypaint that can't be turned invisible. Maybe a modified version of that bacteria that lights up the air around an astrally active entity? |
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May 24 2006, 07:03 PM
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#22
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Didn't SOTA64 introduce some aura glassess or camera or something like that? I seem to remember something technological that could vaguely detect auras. Not really astral sight, but maybe enough to indicate where to open fire. The resolution was very crappy, and probably still subject to blind fire modifiers, but at least you'd know where to point the gun.
Wasn't there? Am I making stuff up again? |
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May 24 2006, 07:05 PM
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#23
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Target Group: Members Posts: 81 Joined: 19-May 06 Member No.: 8,576 |
Kirlean photography is supposed to be able to take pictures of auras. But I'm pretty sure that is only a chemical treatment during the developing stage, not something you could use to pinpoint a character's location right that second.
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May 24 2006, 07:06 PM
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#24
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,026 Joined: 23-November 05 From: Seattle (Really!) Member No.: 7,996 |
Pheromone detectors, echo locattion, bio-electric sensors, pressure pads, very and ultra short wavelength radar, and ultra-sound are all options for detecting an invisible mage. In addition circumstances can make the mage stand out. For example set off the fire sprinklers and watch for incongruous drips or dry patches, or Invisibility becomes nearly useless in an active wind tunnel with the smoke streats going. Soft ground can give the mage away too.
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May 24 2006, 07:07 PM
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#25
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
What about FAB strain 1 gas grenades?
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