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> Are reaction enhancers compatible with wired refle
Edward
post May 27 2006, 01:43 PM
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Are reaction enhancers compatible with wired reflexes.

Reaction enhansers say yes

Wired reflexes say no

So what is it?

Edward
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Butterblume
post May 27 2006, 01:49 PM
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Where do wired reflexes say no?

So, the answer is, they are compatible.
(Reaction enhancers are no initiative enhancers, they enhance reaction :P ).

Edit: changed inititiative to initiative ;).
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NightHaunter
post May 27 2006, 01:59 PM
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They have been in the past.
I think they mean, compatible with any other initative pass increaser.
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SuperSpy
post May 27 2006, 02:13 PM
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QUOTE (SR4 p. 334 under Reaction Enhancers)
Add the rating of reaction enhancers to a character's Reaction attribute (this will also affect Initiative).  Reaction enhancers are compatible with other Initiative-boosters.

Italics added for emphasis. Note that says "other Initative-boosters" implying that it, itself is an Initiative-booster. Also note that it does not say that is compatible with ALL initative enhancements. And it is clearly stated that it does "affect Initiative."

QUOTE (SR4 p.335 under Wired Reflexes)
Wired reflexes cannot be combined with any other form of Initiative enhancement.

Again, italics are mine for emphasis. I think the use of "any" pretty much rules Reaction Enhancers out.

Currently it looks like Reaction Enhancers are only compatible with the Increase Reflexes and Increase Reaction spells. There may be more initiative enhancing 'ware in future suppliments though (I'm thinking Boosted Reflexes might show up in Arsenel) that Reaction Enhancers are meant to be compatible with.

[Edited for spelling]
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FrankTrollman
post May 27 2006, 03:04 PM
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Yes, the wording is slightly ambiguous, but the most literal and most appropriate meaning is that Wired Reflexes are not cumulative with other effects that boost IPs, and are cumulative with effects that raise Intuition or Reaction.

There has been a significant amount of discussion about this and designers have weighed in several times. Just think, if the authors had been just a little more clear, we wouldn't need to have this discussion every few weeks. :)

-Frank
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TBRMInsanity
post May 27 2006, 03:06 PM
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When dealing with SR4 forget what you have read in SR3- as a LOT of the rules have changed. With reaction being a augmented attribute (vs derived in SR3-) you can enhance it as much as you would like. Wired reflexes just gives you more initiative passes now.
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SuperSpy
post May 27 2006, 03:33 PM
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QUOTE (TBRMInsanity @ May 27 2006, 10:06 AM)
Wired reflexes just gives you more initiative passes now.

Actually, Wired Reflexes still increase your Reaction attribute as well.
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NightHaunter
post May 27 2006, 03:46 PM
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QUOTE (SuperSpy)
QUOTE (SR4 p. 334 under Reaction Enhancers)
Add the rating of reaction enhancers to a character's Reaction attribute (this will also affect Initiative).  Reaction enhancers are compatible with other Initiative-boosters.

Italics added for emphasis. Note that says "other Initative-boosters" implying that it, itself is an Initiative-booster. Also note that it does not say that is compatible with ALL initative enhancements. And it is clearly stated that it does "affect Initiative."

QUOTE (SR4 p.335 under Wired Reflexes)
Wired reflexes cannot be combined with any other form of Initiative enhancement.

Again, italics are mine for emphasis. I think the use of "any" pretty much rules Reaction Enhancers out.

Currently it looks like Reaction Enhancers are only compatible with the Increase Reflexes and Increase Reaction spells. There may be more initiative enhancing 'ware in future suppliments though (I'm thinking Boosted Reflexes might show up in Arsenel) that Reaction Enhancers are meant to be compatible with.

[Edited for spelling]

Reaction Enhancers increase reaction not initative. (Yes I know it affects initative but so does spending karma on increasing your reaction.
Your argument seems to negate that possibility as well.

So they are compatible with wired reflexes!
QED
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SuperSpy
post May 27 2006, 03:49 PM
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But if Reaction Enhancers are compatible with "other Initiative-boosters" then they, themselves, must be considered Initative-boosters. Otherwise what does "other" refere to? Other than what?
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NightHaunter
post May 27 2006, 03:54 PM
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Just dodgy wording I think.
Better check with fanpro just to be sure, but i'm certain that the way I read it is correct.
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TBRMInsanity
post May 29 2006, 01:18 PM
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Are reaction enhancers initiative boosters?

Yes and no.

Yes:
They increase your reaction which is fundamental in initiative. So in that sense they are initiative boosters.

No:
They increase your reaction which is now a augmentable attribute and effects other tests. So they are more then just an initiative booster.
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mdynna
post May 29 2006, 04:23 PM
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I had always read it that Reaction Enhancement was compatible with Wired Reflexes. I think what they are getting at with the text in Wired Reflexes as they are not compatible with Synaptic Accelerator. Reaction Enhancers, however, are compatible.

You know what would clear this up a lot? An errata that added 1 word:
QUOTE (SR4 pg. 335)
Wired reflexes cannot be combined with any other form of Initiative Pass enhancement.

There, doesn't that make things much better? It also rules out the question about the Increase Reflexes spell.
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mdynna
post May 29 2006, 04:27 PM
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QUOTE (SuperSpy)
(I'm thinking Boosted Reflexes might show up in Arsenel) that Reaction Enhancers are meant to be compatible with.

Ok, maybe I was the only one that caught this, but didn't the description of SR3 say that Boosted Reflexes where incompatable with anything that touched your Reaction or Initiative in any way shape or form, until the end of time, plus the Reflex Boost was a one-time enhancement. Boosted Relfexes were really cheap, but their draw back was: This is it, this is all you get and you can only do it once.

Why do I feel like I'm the only one that ever reads the paragraph description of things? It seems like all anyone else does is read that stat-block.
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Edward
post May 29 2006, 04:36 PM
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Also it says wired reflexes are not compatible with any other initiative boosters, obviously nobody in there right mind would install both synaptic boosters and wired reflexes but what form dose the incompatibility take if I take a samy with wired 1 and case a force 3 increase reflexes spell on him, or if he takes a drug cocktail to give +2 initiative passes.

Do they just not stack or dose it leave him twitching and frothing at the mouth

Edward
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SuperSpy
post May 29 2006, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE (mdynna)
Ok, maybe I was the only one that caught this, but didn't the description of SR3 say that Boosted Reflexes where incompatable with anything that touched your Reaction or Initiative in any way shape or form, until the end of time

Nope. Boosted Reflexes in SR3 were described as being incompatible with Wired Reflexes and Vehicle Control Rigs specifically (SR3 p.300).

It's interesting to note that in SR3, the Wired Reflexes description has no statement reguarding compatibility and in the description for Reaction Enhancers, the compatibility statement was nearly the same as it is in SR4.

QUOTE (SR3 p.301)
The reaction enhancer is compatible with other reaction/Initiative boosters.

Hmmm...looks like this line was practically copy and pasted into SR4. Perhaps if it was re-written more specifically for SR4 we wouldn't have this confusion.

QUOTE (mdynna)
plus the Reflex Boost was a one-time enhancement.  Boosted Relfexes were really cheap, but their draw back was: This is it, this is all you get and you can only do it once.

This is true. But remember that holding on to SR3 assumptions might be dangerous in understanding this new ruleset.

QUOTE (mdynna)
Why do I feel like I'm the only one that ever reads the paragraph description of things?  It seems like all anyone else does is read that stat-block.

This seems to be a strange remark in a thread that is completely about the paragraph description of things.
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TBRMInsanity
post May 30 2006, 05:32 PM
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QUOTE (Edward)
Also it says wired reflexes are not compatible with any other initiative boosters, obviously nobody in there right mind would install both synaptic boosters and wired reflexes but what form dose the incompatibility take if I take a samy with wired 1 and case a force 3 increase reflexes spell on him, or if he takes a drug cocktail to give +2 initiative passes.

Do they just not stack or dose it leave him twitching and frothing at the mouth

Edward

I think you get the number of initiative passes equal to the maximum initiative passes of all equipment, powers, and spells. SO:

If Wired reflexes gives me 3 initiative passes
Drugs give me 2 initiative passes
Increases Reflexes spell gives me 3 initiative passes
and my base is 1 initiative pass

I have 3 initiative passes.
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