 Powerful Sprites, Are helpless on my wristwatch? |
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 May 27 2006, 03:49 PM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 24 Joined: 26-May 06 Member No.: 8,606  |
Am I right in understanding that rating 12 Sprites are like rating 12 Agents, which are rating 12 programs, which do operate at a reduced rating of 3 (System rating) on my wristwatch?
Meaning that high-end Sprites (rating 7+) are kinda pointless, since practically no node can have a System above 6? |
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May 27 2006, 03:51 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 360 Joined: 18-March 02 From: Plymouth UK. Member No.: 2,408 |
I'm still rusty on this myself, but isn't it your resonance? Since thats what creates and feeds them.
System is for the system running it's own programs. |
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May 28 2006, 05:08 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 349 Joined: 16-January 05 Member No.: 6,984 |
No they are not like agents set to run on whatever system they are active in.
So if you have the misfortune of running into a R12 sprite, it will have rating 12 programs and matrix stats of at least 12. Were I to encounter a rating 12 sprite, especially a r12 fault sprite, I would be off the trix faster than you could think "Dumpshock" buddy. |
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May 28 2006, 04:17 PM
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#4
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
yeah, and sever all your gear's connection from the matrix as fast you can, too. mind you, good luck seeing that sprite if it has a rating 12 stealth CF. |
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May 28 2006, 04:23 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 801 Joined: 13-March 06 Member No.: 8,374 |
rating twelve sprits make everything cry. You have rateing twelve complex forms. You have crack sprites that delay alarms by 6 combat turns.
you have fault sprites with a 12 DV attack that damages you every round (and gives you a -2 on all actions) untill you can beat it in a responsex2 opposed test. Did I mention its response is 14? meaning that your up agienst 28 dice? and to make things worse, the fault sprite at that rateing would have Black IC complex forms (at well as a medic rating 12). |
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May 29 2006, 08:00 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 158 Joined: 10-April 06 Member No.: 8,448 |
Did I miss something or is every resonance-6-technomancer able to summon such a monster? I mean, use edge and you are very likely to enslave this guy for at least one service.
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May 29 2006, 09:04 AM
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#7
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
Well, if you really want something insane you could make sure that you get a registered sprite that work 24/7 as your personal node defense…Analyze at rating 12 anyone? You just have to survive an opposed test against 24D6 |
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May 29 2006, 11:09 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 158 Joined: 10-April 06 Member No.: 8,448 |
Uh, yeah... Still, with edge a good technomancer should be able to reach 12 dice for his registrating test. He just has to try for a good amount of time and then possibly can control such a mighty spirit. "Go into this node!" "You want me to infiltrate it, master?" "No, I want you to destroy every single byte of it!" "Yes, master." |
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May 29 2006, 03:22 PM
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#9
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
The scary thing is that it is correct. Even if they reboot the node/system it would just go in until it finishes it's mission, i can take weeks, months but unless they take out the sprite (good luck) or switch hardware completely it will continue until its time is up or if it is a permanent sprite it will just go on. |
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May 29 2006, 03:29 PM
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#10
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Target Group: Members Posts: 24 Joined: 26-May 06 Member No.: 8,606 |
You are right, level 12 Sprites are within reach of a starting level Technomancer with enough Edge. Said character must still find a way to recover from the physical Fading damage though. Maybe good First Aid skill and rating 6 medikit, along with a Bear Shaman contact/friend for the occasional SNAFU. The fact that unlike Spirits, Matrix Sprites have no Edge makes them easier to catch. :P And they're still monsters. :D *in a security camera node* - Hey big ass. See that guy? - YES MASTER - Here's your remote task : Use any possible means to kill him. *Sprite fades. Some people in the crowd get upset as a cleaning drone suddenly accelerates through the mall* |
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May 29 2006, 04:45 PM
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#11
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392 |
It'll get even worse once they release Unwired and they introduce Power and Registering Foci for Technomancers. Then it'll be good and easy to summon those monsters.
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May 29 2006, 05:36 PM
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#12
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Hackers need SO much help; they're basically obsolete.
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May 29 2006, 05:50 PM
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#13
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Ain Soph Aur Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,477 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Montreal, Canada Member No.: 600 |
For an upcoming campaign, I wanted to play a hacker type, so either a Hacker or a Technomancer. When i made my characters, I found that Technomancers were ONLY good at hacking since I had to sink like all my points in there. With a Hacker, I could still be pretty good at hacking and still be able to diversify. In the end, I went for the hacker. So no, there is NOTHING wrong with hackers. They aren't the cutting edge of hacking like technomancers are, but the ability to diversify a bit is also very powerful. I think that's reasonable and what the devs intended. |
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May 30 2006, 03:53 AM
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#14
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
perhaps you should try not handing them out free BP/Karma like it's halloween candy then, and you'll see a difference. (for the record, this assumes i remember right and you have given them complex forms bought for 3 BP or 5 Karma, which then have a rating equal to your resonance. if i'm thinking of someone else entirely, then i suppose i may have to take that back =D ) |
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May 30 2006, 04:08 AM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 684 Joined: 8-April 06 From: My dorm room Member No.: 8,438 |
Yeah, that was him. I should know, I'm the one benefiting from it!
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May 30 2006, 04:11 AM
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#16
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
That also means that pretty much all the Matrix threats will be Resonant after your first submersion.
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May 30 2006, 08:11 AM
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#17
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,000 Joined: 17-November 05 From: Halifax, Canada Member No.: 7,975 |
Where did you get the idea that Technomancers would have some sort of 'foci' for this sort of thing? [edit] Benefits that saves Hackers and plagues Technomancers: - The TM shares his physical damage track with his living persona. (You kill a hackers comm, they go out and buy a new one, you kill a TM's icon, they're dead for real) - A hacker can improve their commlink through various upgrades. A Technomancer can only 'upgrade' their persona by improving their stats or by Submersion. - Hackers can buy as many programs as they have the :nuyen: for. TM's have to spend BP/Karma to learn forms. Once in game play a TM can only learn new forms from another TM or from a registered Sprite. So.... How is that Hackers need so much help? |
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May 30 2006, 04:21 PM
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#18
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,512 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 392 |
The fact that in the gaming industry now you have to have all sorts of new toys and goodies for players to use when you release a book. For unwired this is going to mean a lot of new programs/cps, sprites, and gear for both hackers and technomancers. It is really easy to add in thanks to the streamlined rules and it is quite the juicy bit of gear for any players out there. It would sell a lot of books so it would make sense to throw it in there. |
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May 30 2006, 05:53 PM
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#19
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Target Group: Members Posts: 23 Joined: 16-February 06 Member No.: 8,272 |
Just a note, while a technomancer of resonance of 6 or higher can indeed compile a rating 12 sprite with enough luck on the dice roll, such a sprite will never be registered.
Registering a sprite take an hour per rating. An unregistered sprite disappears in 8 hours. In other words, the highest rating sprite that can be registered regardless of power of the technomancer is 8. |
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May 30 2006, 06:04 PM
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#20
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,002 Joined: 22-April 06 From: Canada Member No.: 8,494 |
This would be a good time to go into electronic silence, and then goto a helpdesk to get your wristwatch fixed (most likely a wipe of the OS and purchase of a new one).
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May 31 2006, 07:49 AM
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#21
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Target Group: Members Posts: 24 Joined: 26-May 06 Member No.: 8,606 |
Damn, you're right. :( |
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May 31 2006, 01:24 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 349 Joined: 16-January 05 Member No.: 6,984 |
Indeed, I do remember running a few rolls though, assuming that the registration process would keep the sprite around somehow.
Once I got lucky and the sprite rolled badly so I registered it. I then tried to reregister it, and had to soak something like 20P. Remember, if the sprite rolls well on the registration test you can't actually reduce those successes and you will take twice its successes in physical damage, not net successes, but gross successes. And as it is rolling 24 dice, it has a good chance of doing enough to instakill you. If it rolls the average it will do 16P, which is enough to instakill any character 5 body who fails to get any successes, on average anyone with a body of less than 5 will not only die, but will die before anyone has a chance at healing them. Yes, you could get lucky, you could burn edge live, but it only takes being unlucky once. And in this case bring unlucky is really just not being lucky. |
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Jun 15 2006, 06:09 PM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 984 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,717 |
Resisting Fading would be a problem except that you resist with Resonance and Will.
The real problem lies in that Threaded Forms are limited by Resonace, an attribute that never really caps. Technos aren't only a little bit better than hackers, they're infinitely so. A Techno with a Threaded Stealth program will never be caught once he's in. Once you're in the test are opposed tests not extended test like when you're Exploiting. Using BP/Karma for complex forms is silly for all but one: Stealth. Fading for for threading is equal to how much the CF is improved by, not the new rating like the Imp Attribute Spell. this means you can easily up RES, Initiate, and put a few Karma into Stealth and you can one-up Fast Jack himself |
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Jun 15 2006, 07:18 PM
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#24
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
Until you critical glitch your oppossed test. That will always screw you.
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Jun 16 2006, 04:01 AM
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#25
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
With the broadening of computer skills in SR4, it's harder to diversify a decker out. But they do diversify a lot more readily than an otaku. Also, a decker can afford more and better programs right out of the gate, along with better gear-equivalents (a starting otaku is limited to a Signal of 3, for example). So, deckers can start out much more powerful right out of character generation, kind of like the samurai/adept split. Frank Trollman posted a set of numbers showing that otaku are never going to earn enough karma to realistically become matrix gods; IIRC it'd take over 1000 karma for an otaku to have all complex forms at 10. So, otaku start off weaker, and don't become dramatically more powerful as the game progresses-- they might be uncapped in some areas, but they'll never reach those points over the course of a normal campaign. After doing some fiddling around with numbers, I've come to the conclusion that the dedicated summoner otaku is the biggest bang-for-your-buck combination. Sprites can do so much more than the summoning otaku, it's not even funny. I'll have to do some more crunching, but it looks like a specialist summoner with midrange decking skills is the most efficient otaku build.
This is where a weak spot in the burning Edge rules can help you out. So long as you can afford to blow 9 karma, it won't hurt you at all, presuming you only have an edge of 2. It works like this: when you burn Edge, you can opt for an instant critical success; and critical successes are defined as scoring four or more *net* successes over your opponent. So, regardless of what the spirit rolls, you're going to net *at least* four services out of it. (Granted, if a player tried for more, I'd tell him that the orbital cow launchers are coming online :D.)What's more, the critical success rules state that you can add whatever flourish you want when describing the action; so you didn't just summon that force-12 sprite, you slapped it down like a red-headed stepchild, dressed it in drag, forced it into a dikoted AVS, and started calling yourself "Da Pimp" and it "Da Ho". 8) You then burn another edge to soak the drain. Again, you will score four successes above whatever it rolled, so you're completely safe. You won't take the slightest bit of drain at all, since you've scored four above whatever you might have needed. Assuming you only had an edge of 2 to begin with, you spend 9 karma, and buy your Edge back up to 2. I'd consider that a fair price to get that many services out of a matrix godling. In fact, certain players might just think of it as a flat purchase, as opposed to a set of tests. Now, James and his kind are going to go ballistic that I pointed out yet another hole in his favorite system. I'll follow this by mentioning that currently there are several legal and aboveboard ways of reducing the utility of this trick, without bending a single rule or resorting to the slightest bit of GM unfairness. The most obvious is that since you can't register a force 12 sprite, the player is going to be summoning it mid-game. That being the case, you're well within your bounds to restrict the player from buying back his Edge in the middle of the session. Of course, the real issue is going to come up when the advanced rules show up. I'll wager that you'll be able to reduce the base time to register by spending additional successes; this will allow you to register that force-12 monstrosity via this trick. And I'll bet that Ally Sprites aren't that far away, so the burning Edge trick will allow you to summon all kinds of nastiness. (Presuming that you have to spend karma anyway to summon an ally, adding 9 karma to it probably won't be much of a problem.) |
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