Another fun question about mindprobe, not on if it's detectable thoguh |
Another fun question about mindprobe, not on if it's detectable thoguh |
May 30 2006, 08:09 AM
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#1
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Target Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 30-May 06 Member No.: 8,625 |
Yay, first question on here, anyways....
From SR3, it says (with enough successes) that you can "detect subconscious thought that even the subject may be unaware of" or the similar. My question is: is it useable on unconscious targets? Or does the subject have to be awake. On that same note, does it also work for "mindless" targets? Such as if someone used lower attribute to drop the subjects mental stat to 0 beforehand? |
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May 30 2006, 08:29 AM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 28-February 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,319 |
I would rule no and no, personally.
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May 30 2006, 03:52 PM
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#3
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
I'd say yes and no. The yes probably won't be very useful though, since the mind tends to wander when you're sleeping. For no mental stat I consider that to be brain dead. The body's alive but the mind has shut down completely.
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May 30 2006, 04:05 PM
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#4
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,026 Joined: 23-November 05 From: Seattle (Really!) Member No.: 7,996 |
I would say you can read the unconscious mind, but the information is going to be a jumbled dreamlike mess. Mind Probe lets you read thoughts but not put them in context, which a conscious target would do for you. For the zeroed out mental attribute you could read their mind, but it would be akin to readng a blank document.
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May 30 2006, 04:30 PM
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#5
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Target Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 30-May 06 Member No.: 8,625 |
Thanks for the responses.
I was just curious as the book wasn't completely clear. Example of a situation that came to mind was knocking out a guard in front of a door, then checking to see if he knew the code for the door. |
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May 30 2006, 09:25 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 470 Joined: 2-January 05 From: Quebec Member No.: 6,924 |
Check the guards pockets, he might have written it on a piece of paper to remind himself. :D |
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May 31 2006, 04:23 AM
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#7
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Unconscious targets can be subjected to Mind Probe, however they have no surface or conscious thoughts. If you achieve enough successes to uncover subconscious (unconscious) thought, you get the piece of information.
Mindless targets are by definition incapable of thought. No. |
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May 31 2006, 09:04 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 28-February 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,319 |
OK yes I could go with everyone else's approach to #1: re: unconscious minds can be probed but with difficulty.
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May 31 2006, 09:22 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 289 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,625 |
Player manages to mind probe unconcious target.
Player: Do I find out the access code? GM: No, but you now have a very vivid impression in you head of a sexual fantasy involving a goat, a bucket of jelly and a baseball bat. Yeah, not entirely sure how useful mindprobing someone unconcious would be. |
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May 31 2006, 09:27 AM
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#10
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
Because if he was concious, he'd be thinking about the code instead of trying to not shit himself and hopeing the troll with the shotgun doesn't get trigger happy? |
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May 31 2006, 09:36 AM
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#11
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
The Troll could say "Your code or your life, asshole!" That would bring it to his head, whether he wanted it to or not, unless he's some kind of Zen Master.
Of course, if you have a troll with a troll-sized shotgun, just have the troll roll Intimidate. :) |
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May 31 2006, 03:13 PM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 292 Joined: 24-September 04 Member No.: 6,701 |
Bah... who needs Mind Probe...
Westley: Give us the gate key. Yellin: I have no gate key. Inigo Montoya: Fezzik, tear his arms off. Yellin: Oh, you mean *this* gate key. |
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May 31 2006, 03:21 PM
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#13
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,095 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ontari-airee-o Member No.: 1,115 |
Doesn't a mind probe forceably sift through memories??
Don't stun and physical modifiers apply to the target number to resist? It would be easier to sift through someone's unconcious mind, since you direct where the memory is accessing. If someone was mind probing an unconscious person, the person resisting would get a +4 tn. It doesn't say that the target has to be concious, and depending on the number of successes, is the amount of info the caster gets. if you get 1-2 ... then you get garbled dreams.... 3-4 you can knowledge, 5+ .. then you get get anything you want. |
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May 31 2006, 04:16 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 28-February 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,319 |
I think it's a game balance issue. Making it easy to mind probe unconscious people means the players will always shoot first and ask questions later. Making it harder means they have to think about whether to knock the guard unconscious or not.
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May 31 2006, 05:01 PM
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#15
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,095 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ontari-airee-o Member No.: 1,115 |
Shooting implies deadly physical, which I think makes the spell useless unless you all your characters to make up a commune with dead spell, or summon the spirit of the dead person.
Yes I know there are gel rounds and supersquirts, but those are easier to defend against. (the trade off is that you need at least 3 successes to get any useful information) You could always increase the threshhold, but the tn is still willpower, which can be a pain to roll against sometimes. |
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May 31 2006, 05:36 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 28-February 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,319 |
I was using the phrase 'shoot first and ask questions later' in its broader idiomatic sense, really, although my players do like to bandy the gel ammo and stunbolts about. But even if they're doing physical, they'd probably butcher the guy until he was unconscious and dying, and then try and mind probe him while he's on his way out. So I think it's best to make that approach problematic at least.
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May 31 2006, 05:47 PM
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#17
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Target Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 30-May 06 Member No.: 8,625 |
If I wanted to torment someone into giving info, I would just have fun with agony.
The thought also crossed my mind if another runner on the team was stupid enough to shoot the wrong person. *adept uses some of his fancy moves to knock out the guard* Shaman: You know we needed him awake, right? Adept: ".....oops?" |
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May 31 2006, 10:37 PM
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#18
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
I dunno, personally, I'd be thinking a lot more about my life than the code. |
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Jun 1 2006, 01:27 AM
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#19
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Platinum nailed it. You guys are misinterpreting the spell. You wouldn't get "a mishmash of undecipherable emotions and etc etc etc", because the spell specifically pulls the answer to one question (a piece of information) from their mind. The other stuff is great fluff, and I love giving similar descriptions to characters in game, but as far as effects (mechanical and practical), you go:
PC: (oc) I want to use Mind Probe to get the access key to his safe. GM: Okay, roll it up. *roll, roll* PC: (oc) I got five successes. GM: Great. <begin fluff> You burst through his mental defenses with ease, and deftly pour through his mind for the most recent time that he accessed his safe. There! <end fluff / begin resolution of task> The combination to his safe is 455351. |
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