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> Another fun question about mindprobe, not on if it's detectable thoguh
Arande
post May 30 2006, 08:09 AM
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Yay, first question on here, anyways....

From SR3, it says (with enough successes) that you can "detect subconscious thought that even the subject may be unaware of" or the similar. My question is: is it useable on unconscious targets? Or does the subject have to be awake.

On that same note, does it also work for "mindless" targets? Such as if someone used lower attribute to drop the subjects mental stat to 0 beforehand?
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Witness
post May 30 2006, 08:29 AM
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I would rule no and no, personally.
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James McMurray
post May 30 2006, 03:52 PM
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I'd say yes and no. The yes probably won't be very useful though, since the mind tends to wander when you're sleeping. For no mental stat I consider that to be brain dead. The body's alive but the mind has shut down completely.
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stevebugge
post May 30 2006, 04:05 PM
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I would say you can read the unconscious mind, but the information is going to be a jumbled dreamlike mess. Mind Probe lets you read thoughts but not put them in context, which a conscious target would do for you. For the zeroed out mental attribute you could read their mind, but it would be akin to readng a blank document.
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Arande
post May 30 2006, 04:30 PM
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Thanks for the responses.

I was just curious as the book wasn't completely clear. Example of a situation that came to mind was knocking out a guard in front of a door, then checking to see if he knew the code for the door.
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Trax
post May 30 2006, 09:25 PM
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QUOTE (Arande)
Thanks for the responses.

I was just curious as the book wasn't completely clear. Example of a situation that came to mind was knocking out a guard in front of a door, then checking to see if he knew the code for the door.

Check the guards pockets, he might have written it on a piece of paper to remind himself. :D
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eidolon
post May 31 2006, 04:23 AM
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Unconscious targets can be subjected to Mind Probe, however they have no surface or conscious thoughts. If you achieve enough successes to uncover subconscious (unconscious) thought, you get the piece of information.

Mindless targets are by definition incapable of thought. No.
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Witness
post May 31 2006, 09:04 AM
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OK yes I could go with everyone else's approach to #1: re: unconscious minds can be probed but with difficulty.
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DuckEggBlue Omeg...
post May 31 2006, 09:22 AM
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Player manages to mind probe unconcious target.

Player: Do I find out the access code?

GM: No, but you now have a very vivid impression in you head of a sexual fantasy involving a goat, a bucket of jelly and a baseball bat.

Yeah, not entirely sure how useful mindprobing someone unconcious would be.
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Tarantula
post May 31 2006, 09:27 AM
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QUOTE (DuckEggBlue Omega)
Player manages to mind probe unconcious target.

Player: Do I find out the access code?

GM: No, but you now have a very vivid impression in you head of a sexual fantasy involving a goat, a bucket of jelly and a baseball bat.

Yeah, not entirely sure how useful mindprobing someone unconcious would be.

Because if he was concious, he'd be thinking about the code instead of trying to not shit himself and hopeing the troll with the shotgun doesn't get trigger happy?
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ShadowDragon8685
post May 31 2006, 09:36 AM
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The Troll could say "Your code or your life, asshole!" That would bring it to his head, whether he wanted it to or not, unless he's some kind of Zen Master.


Of course, if you have a troll with a troll-sized shotgun, just have the troll roll Intimidate. :)
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LinaInverse
post May 31 2006, 03:13 PM
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Bah... who needs Mind Probe...

Westley: Give us the gate key.
Yellin: I have no gate key.
Inigo Montoya: Fezzik, tear his arms off.
Yellin: Oh, you mean *this* gate key.
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Platinum
post May 31 2006, 03:21 PM
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Doesn't a mind probe forceably sift through memories??

Don't stun and physical modifiers apply to the target number to resist?
It would be easier to sift through someone's unconcious mind, since you direct where the memory is accessing.

If someone was mind probing an unconscious person, the person resisting would get a +4 tn. It doesn't say that the target has to be concious, and depending on the number of successes, is the amount of info the caster gets. if you get 1-2 ... then you get garbled dreams.... 3-4 you can knowledge, 5+ .. then you get get anything you want.
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Witness
post May 31 2006, 04:16 PM
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I think it's a game balance issue. Making it easy to mind probe unconscious people means the players will always shoot first and ask questions later. Making it harder means they have to think about whether to knock the guard unconscious or not.
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Platinum
post May 31 2006, 05:01 PM
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Shooting implies deadly physical, which I think makes the spell useless unless you all your characters to make up a commune with dead spell, or summon the spirit of the dead person.

Yes I know there are gel rounds and supersquirts, but those are easier to defend against. (the trade off is that you need at least 3 successes to get any useful information) You could always increase the threshhold, but the tn is still willpower, which can be a pain to roll against sometimes.
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Witness
post May 31 2006, 05:36 PM
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I was using the phrase 'shoot first and ask questions later' in its broader idiomatic sense, really, although my players do like to bandy the gel ammo and stunbolts about. But even if they're doing physical, they'd probably butcher the guy until he was unconscious and dying, and then try and mind probe him while he's on his way out. So I think it's best to make that approach problematic at least.
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Arande
post May 31 2006, 05:47 PM
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If I wanted to torment someone into giving info, I would just have fun with agony.

The thought also crossed my mind if another runner on the team was stupid enough to shoot the wrong person.
*adept uses some of his fancy moves to knock out the guard*
Shaman: You know we needed him awake, right?
Adept: ".....oops?"
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Tarantula
post May 31 2006, 10:37 PM
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QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)
The Troll could say "Your code or your life, asshole!" That would bring it to his head, whether he wanted it to or not, unless he's some kind of Zen Master.


Of course, if you have a troll with a troll-sized shotgun, just have the troll roll Intimidate. :)

I dunno, personally, I'd be thinking a lot more about my life than the code.
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eidolon
post Jun 1 2006, 01:27 AM
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Platinum nailed it. You guys are misinterpreting the spell. You wouldn't get "a mishmash of undecipherable emotions and etc etc etc", because the spell specifically pulls the answer to one question (a piece of information) from their mind. The other stuff is great fluff, and I love giving similar descriptions to characters in game, but as far as effects (mechanical and practical), you go:

PC: (oc) I want to use Mind Probe to get the access key to his safe.
GM: Okay, roll it up.
*roll, roll*
PC: (oc) I got five successes.
GM: Great. <begin fluff> You burst through his mental defenses with ease, and deftly pour through his mind for the most recent time that he accessed his safe. There! <end fluff / begin resolution of task> The combination to his safe is 455351.
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