Target Number Systems, (Copied from SR4) Options

[nezumi]

That's not a bad idea. Basically I see the 'environment adds to the TN' and the 'actor's skill (and presumably other things like smartlink') adds to the number of dice rolled' is ALMOST how it's done in SR3. Except that many things like the smartlink are considered environmental rather than personal (looking for a better word).

You're right that thresholds are already in place in SR3. In fact, I would argue threshoulds are in place for EVERy test in SR3 except open tests. Trying to kill someone with your gun? The threshold is 8 successes (minus his successes in absorbing damage). If you fall short, you don't kill him, but some smaller success does play out. The only real difference *I* see is that your system is more formalized.

[Dv84good]

Looks like both polls are almost equally opposite. Interesting.

[Llewelyn]

I'm just waiting for the last "other" person to vote!

[James McMurray]

It's about 50/50 here. I expected much more weight on the floating TN side. Over on the SR4 board it's 2:1 in favor of fixed, which isn't surprising.

[Brahm]

I'm mostly indifferent to the general question of fixed versus variable.

I must say that, although SR4's implementation of fixed TN could have used more polish, it is miles ahead of the collective of the dog's breakfast muddle of wildly different systems that were sprinkled throughout SR3.

The biggest problem I see with SR4 is they mostly failed to use Threshold modifiers, and even to fully utilize per hit mechanics. Both key strengths of fixed TN dice pools. This lead to a missed opportunity for a lot better use of a fixed TN strengths. Occationally resulting in really awkward mechanics. For example what was the author of the Concealing Gear rules thinking? :wobble:

There are better implementations of fixed TNs systems out there, in d6 too, with a lot smoother playability than SR4 and obviously SR3. And incidentally more complete coverage of actions than SR3, approaching a boardgame level of completeness. Come to think of it can't say I could name a really well done variable TN pool system.

SR3 does expressly use Thresholds in places, it even effectively uses fixed TN in places. But varying the TN when using Thresholds creates very steep probability curve dropoffs making the TN very sensitive to change. Usually that is a bad thing. The ability to have a variable number of "successes" is a big strength for dice pools but variable TNs, or at least one with unbounded variability in the TN, actually seems to undermine this. :/ I think the need for the L-M-S-D damage range that then gets translated into boxes of damage to be applied is a symptom of that problem.

So I guess if the question was reframed to: For dice pools do you favour Fixed TN or Variable TN? I'd have to say Fixed TN.


P.S. Between dice pool and non-dice pool I must say I favour the asthetics of dice pool. Both grabbing a handful of dice, and the multiple 'successes' part. Though I guess the later is partially function as well as asthetics.