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Melkor
post Oct 14 2003, 05:27 AM
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I'm working on a new Shadowrun campaign which is going to have some elements ispired by the movie "Underworld". I'm wanting to "adjust" the Vampires found in the Critters book to better match those from the movie. It will be my first Shadowrun game in YEARS, so I am not completely familiar with the rules, and wanted to ask for some assistance.

The current way Regeneration works (drawn together from the Critters book and the Shadowrun Companion) is that you roll when you receive deadly damage, and on a "1", you don't regenerate. This increases to a "1" or "2" in the event that some/all of the deadly damage received is from a source that the character is allergic to, or that causes massive tissue damage (fire, explosives, etc).

I would like a better way to represent the Vampires ability to be hurt by, but shrug off and later heal "normal" damage. I'm going to play around with letting the character's become infected at some point, and I would hate for a single roll of 1 or 1-2 to completely wipe out their character.

I considered giving the vampires complete immunity to "normal weapons", but they will also be wearing armor. Immunity gives the vampire an Armor Rating equal to his/her Essence Rating - add armor on top of that, and the vampires will almost NEVER take normal damage.....I want a happy medium.

Weapons based on Ultraviolet Light wouldn't automatically destroy the Vampire, but the would definitely bypass any kind of immunity.

Any ideas for making this work ? Thanks!
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Chance359
post Oct 14 2003, 05:31 AM
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One solution would be to give the vampires adept powers of pain resistance (so they can shrug off the hits) and enhanced healing so they can recover more quickly after the fight is over.
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Anymage
post Oct 14 2003, 05:34 AM
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Completely bypass Shadowrun. Go right to White Wolf's Vampire: the Masquerade instead. The rules there are built around vampires being the PC's, and are less critter-ish as a result.

Besides, you may as well go directly to the source Underworld was inspired from in the first place.
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BitBasher
post Oct 14 2003, 05:53 AM
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Riiiight too bad vampire stole it from Anne Rice who stole it from Bram Stoker whole stole it from Ledgends of Vlad The Impaler...
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Kagetenshi
post Oct 14 2003, 05:56 AM
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Someone reads Penny Arcade.
Regardless, think about what you just said, Melkor. You don't want someone to get wiped out by an unlucky roll of a 1 or of a 1 or 2.
Remember that these rolls only happen after taking Deadly damage in the first place. Deadly damage in a single round, no less.
Unless you're having the players unarmed against flamethrower-toting enemies, or fighting military helicopters on foot, hopefully they can keep from just being "wiped out" due to being "unlucky".

~J
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The White Dwarf
post Oct 14 2003, 06:42 AM
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Yea, its a 2+ save to regenerate ONLY if youd normally be dead. Theyre not any weaker than normal SR characters, but to top things off they heal every round. And then, if they get to deadly damage in one round by chance, they only actually fail to regenerate on a 1 (or a 2 if the npcs are gunning for you). Now, even if they get a 1, they dont die. They just lie there and bleed to death like a normal character. A little magic or biotech and theyre back on their feet and gtg (comparativly anyways). Vampires are very tough unless you know exactly what to do and get the plan into action fast, and even then they can be big trouble if theres more than one. A group of PC vampires would be powerful indeed....
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Hot Wheels
post Oct 14 2003, 12:28 PM
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Right, someone gets blasted for deadly damage, in most cases that's it, game over.
A vampire gets a 66% chance to get up and shrug it off. 83% if it's just gun play.

That's pretty good odds. As long as the players keep being straight, wearing armor and trying not to get shot in the first place they should be ok. The yutz who decides -"Hey I've got regeneration, I don't need no stinkin' tactics" and runs around in firefights wearing evening wear, gets what he diserves!
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Melkor
post Oct 14 2003, 01:42 PM
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Thanks for the replies.

I don't have my Critters book with me at the moment. Can someone explain the healing that Vampires get every turn ?

I don't remember reading that.
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Stonecougar
post Oct 14 2003, 01:52 PM
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I'd have to agree with Anymage... go play V:TM if you wanna be a party of bloodsuckers. Now, if you wanna combine a vampire or two with the world of Shadowrun, that's different. Personally, I think playing vampires would be dull. There's little to no risk of getting killed... if you're gonna play the diseased predator, ghouls are much more fun. And typically much more unhinged... Muhuhahahaha...
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Rock-Steady
post Oct 14 2003, 02:04 PM
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QUOTE (Melkor)
Can someone explain the healing that Vampires get every turn ?

You have to roll if you get deadly damage at once or cumulative (2 M and one S for example).

If you get only an S damage (again an example) you will get the damage modifiers for that combat turn only.

Quote Critter-Booklet:

The creature suffers the normal damage penalties for the combat turn in which the damage was inflicted, but the damage vanishes at the beginning of the next combat turn.
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Friggas Ring
post Oct 14 2003, 03:32 PM
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QUOTE (Stonecougar)
Personally, I think playing vampires would be dull. There's little to no risk of getting killed...

I'd like to think that a GM could run any kind of campaign in Shadowrun no matter what the level of power. There's always challenging conflict whether you're a bunch of gangers, a team of Shadowrunners, a mercenary squad, Tir Ghosts, vampires, drakes or even dragons. There's always someone stronger. *shrug* But too each his own.
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BitBasher
post Oct 14 2003, 03:43 PM
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Vampire regeneration is basically:
Roll initiative and replace all your damage at the same time.

Nasty.

That being said I have a more organic method for vampire regen. I take the Regenerating creature's Body plus 10 (Which is how many boxes he can regenerate under normal circumstances, 10 plus overflow which is equal to body) and divide that between however many passes there are in the combat turn. If the vampire has 12 body, thats 22 total regen. If there were 3 passes he would regenerate 7 boxes of damage at the end of each pass, both physical and mental. Since a vampire normally as 15-18 body that's ususally in the neighborhood of 25-28 regen divided by the number of passes. If it's a really powerful vampire than the body, can get as high as 12, for a 24 total.

Players in my game rarely, very rarely mess with regenerating creatures if they can help it.
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Melkor
post Oct 14 2003, 04:01 PM
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Thanks again for the tips/information folks.

I would like to make the vampires lose blood as they are wounded, and thus lose essence so that they might need to "recharge" by feeding on blood to regain essence after being seriously hurt.....any suggestions on how to make that work ?

Also, I really liked the visual of the Werewolves in Underworld being able to "cling" to walls....and the Vampires being able to fall from heights and land "in a walk" without taking damage....This seems a little far-fetched for something caused by a virus (but hey, how much in Shadowrun ISN'T far fetched - and besides, vampires can assume a mist form based on Critters can't they ?) Any idea on how to handle these aspects in the rules ?

As for the couple of posters who said "Go play Vampire: The Masquerade".....While I appreciate your "advice", That really has nothing to do with the topic, or the questions I asked. Let me explain the campaign idea so you will see that Vampire: The Masquerade has absolutely nothing to do with the game I am planning to run. I don't want to play anything other than Shadowrun at the moment.

The Vampires I will be using are the result of a virus, and they are more "mutated by the virus" than walking dead.....I'm not saying that I'm going to make the character's all Vampires, but I am going to make catching the virus a real possibility for the players.

The players are going to be part of a group whose purpose is to hunt down those infected with the virus and "contain" them....At some point, it might be interested to throw in undertones from Underworld - what if one of the characters becomes the thing the other characters are hunting ? What if one of the characters develops a romantic relationship with someone who is infected ?

Thanks again. Cheers.
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Kagetenshi
post Oct 14 2003, 04:23 PM
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As for injury<->essence loss, I don't see a very good way to do that unless you want to make regeneration cost essence. There's an optional adept power called Adhesion out there that you may want to look up for clinging-to-wallness. Other than that...
OMFG GO PLAY WHITE WOLF YOU FSCKING LOOSER N00B!
*Ahem* ;)

~J
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Hot Wheels
post Oct 14 2003, 04:30 PM
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Just remember, being a vampire, being infected doesn't turn a person into a slavering beast. It's not like in "Buffy" or "from Dusk 'til Dawn" where the infected at once becomes a beast.

Once they have been "turned" and have had the initial feeding(in our world that's drain 3 essence points from what ever comes to hand) they are who they were. It's not like the infected, making out with his girl friend suddenly rips her throat out with a really bad hickie.

Same morals and hopes only now they are really limited by sever allergies and the real strain will come when they have to feed to keep going. They don't go berserk at the site of spilled blood, but might find it shameful for team mates to see them "dining" or team mates might think nothing of meeting in a restaurant, and that will remind the infected of what he lost.
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Siege
post Oct 14 2003, 05:40 PM
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I was going to suggest stronger muscles and physical capabilities to reflect the "jump off a huge building and land in mid-strut", but either the footgear is the strongest stuff known _or_ they have some means of slowing critical acceleration.

Or just chalk it up to a "every character gets one special spiffy schtick".

-Siege
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Melkor
post Oct 14 2003, 07:05 PM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
As for injury<->essence loss, I don't see a very good way to do that unless you want to make regeneration cost essence. There's an optional adept power called Adhesion out there that you may want to look up for clinging-to-wallness. Other than that...
OMFG GO PLAY WHITE WOLF YOU FSCKING LOOSER N00B!
*Ahem* ;)

~J

Only a NOOB to 3rd Edition.

I've been playing RPGs for 18+ years and played a long 1st Edition/2nd Edition Shadowrun game that started when 1st Edition had just come out.

As for White Wolf Vampire - I don't need a dose of all that angst with my Roleplaying thank you very much.

Anyway, thanks for the suggestions......I'll modify the Virus strain to fit the needs of the campaign. Thanks again to all of who have provided suggestions.

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El_Machinae
post Oct 14 2003, 07:24 PM
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Bah - if you're going to steal vampire powers, steal them from RIFTS. Now THOSE guys were bad-bass mofos. Complete immunity to normal weapons. Rapid regeneration from special weapons. Near-instant shape-shifting. A hive-mind mentality. Super intelligences.

Yeah, baby. Bring on the squirt-guns!
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BitBasher
post Oct 14 2003, 07:49 PM
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So they were morlocks?
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Req
post Oct 14 2003, 08:16 PM
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QUOTE (El_Machinae)
Bah - if you're going to steal vampire powers, steal them from RIFTS. Now THOSE guys were bad-bass mofos. Complete immunity to normal weapons. Rapid regeneration from special weapons. Near-instant shape-shifting. A hive-mind mentality. Super intelligences.

Yeah, baby. Bring on the squirt-guns!

Yeah, but you could load wooden stakes in your railguns too, so it wasn't such a big deal. :D
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IcyCool
post Oct 14 2003, 09:06 PM
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QUOTE (Req)
QUOTE (El_Machinae @ Oct 14 2003, 07:24 PM)
Bah - if you're going to steal vampire powers, steal them from RIFTS.  Now THOSE guys were bad-bass mofos.  Complete immunity to normal weapons.  Rapid regeneration from special weapons.  Near-instant shape-shifting.  A hive-mind mentality.  Super intelligences.

Yeah, baby.  Bring on the squirt-guns!

Yeah, but you could load wooden stakes in your railguns too, so it wasn't such a big deal. :D


Sure it was, because would couldn't kill them. Only sunlight, water, and fire could. So you can nail him with wooden railgun rounds, and then have the guys with squirt guns come in and (literally) hose him.

QUOTE (BitBasher)
So they were morlocks?


Only if morlocks could be killed with squirt guns.
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El_Machinae
post Oct 14 2003, 09:23 PM
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That's nothing. I was 15 the last time we played RIFTS, and so the genius of power-gaming was not tempered by physics.

Remember that vampires were invulnerable? Remember that they could shape-shift instantly?

We used to force them into bat-form, wrap metal around them, and fire them from our railguns.

Mid-flight, they'd shift into human form.

BAM! A 160lb man hitting the target at Mach 3. That's from a 8 ounce bat. Our childish physics told us that the vampires would hit the target 320(!) times harder than a normal rail-gun bullet. Kerpow.
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Kagetenshi
post Oct 14 2003, 09:29 PM
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Gotta hate the conservations of energy and momentum :P

~J
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El_Machinae
post Oct 14 2003, 09:38 PM
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Oh, it's the conversion of potential energy to kinetic energy that'll really get you.

Like the time Colossus climbed a hill in steel form, and then converted to human form. Radiated heat all over the place ... :D
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Kagetenshi
post Oct 14 2003, 09:42 PM
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Speaking of which, I've come up with a theory based on the fact that some things can shapeshift without having unusual mass for their new forms: magic and mass can be related, which means that magic and energy would be related, which provides more interesting possibilities to Atomagic.
E=MC^2, but what does Magic=?

~J
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