 attacking through foci?, could in SR3, can you in SR4? |
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 Jun 13 2006, 11:06 PM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 21 Joined: 10-May 06 Member No.: 8,546  |
Maybe I just can't find the rule in SR4, but it does not seem that you can attack someone through their foci anymore.
In our SR3 games, the big drawback to having foci around was that enemy astrally projecting mages could blast you and your team in the physical through that foci. If that is no longer the case, is there any drawbacks to having foci other than glowing like a beacon as if to say, "I'm here, right here!" in the astral? |
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Jun 13 2006, 11:09 PM
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#2
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
You actually couldn't do that in SR3 either. SR2 and SR1 both allowed active foci to act as a bridge for "grounding spells".
There is a couple of limits on active foci number and force, now, and they can still be attacked via astral space (just not grounded through) or set off wards. |
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Jun 13 2006, 11:20 PM
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#3
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Target Group: Members Posts: 21 Joined: 10-May 06 Member No.: 8,546 |
(grin) Well, whichever version it was, I remember people doing it. Would you mind pointing me to the page with the rules on attacking foci (assumedly to destroy them) in astral space? That would certainly be a downside to having them. |
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Jun 13 2006, 11:41 PM
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#4
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Beetle Eater Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 4,797 Joined: 3-June 02 From: Oblivion City Member No.: 2,826 |
"When active, a Focus has an Astral Form." (p. 191)
Objects with an Astral Form can be affected by physical damage in astral combat (p. 184) "While astrally perceiving, a magician can cast mana spells at astral opponents. Other astral forms can engage an astrally perceiving magician in astral combat (p. 184) or cast mana spells at him as well." (p. 182) Disrupted foci are deactivated (p. 186). |
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Jun 14 2006, 07:47 PM
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#5
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Of course you can... Foci still are dual-nantured, meaning they move simultaneously on both planes. Combined with the fact that Charisma is used as Strength on the astral plane, that can result in some real slap-stick kind of attacks. (And for those who can't afford their enemies to feature foci... use stunned devil rats.) :grinbig: |
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Jun 14 2006, 07:50 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 244 Joined: 8-June 06 Member No.: 8,681 |
What sort of 'attack someone through their foci' are you saying 'of course you can' to, specifically? |
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Jun 14 2006, 07:51 PM
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#7
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
So what you're saying is, while an astral form can't ground a spell through an active focus, they can grasp it and physically bludgeon someone with it?
That is, I have to admit, a hilarious idea. But taking it off their person would cause it to deactive, right? Then again, that sounds like a pretty darn convenient way to deactivate a focus. Hmmmm, something's not right here. |
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Jun 14 2006, 07:52 PM
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#8
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,479 Joined: 6-May 05 From: Idaho Member No.: 7,377 |
Edit-Now I see where this is going.
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Jun 14 2006, 07:55 PM
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#9
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,266 Joined: 3-June 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,638 |
I had a GM who fondly recalled schooling a mage with too many spell locks in SR2 by grounding fireballs through them. But then spell locks were absolutely gross!
I'm pretty sure that grounding a spell from the astral to the physical through a foci was done away with in SR3 though. A foci's magical nature can of course be disrupted by attacking it in the astral, but only while it is active, and I don't think the foci can be permenantly harmed from the astral either although I could be wrong. |
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Jun 14 2006, 07:57 PM
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#10
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
And that doesn't even include the ugly possibilities jewelry offers - especially... piercings.
Well, using unmasked foci while not astrally perceiving is the equivalent of running around blindfolded... with your hands tied behind your back, and an ARO screaming 'Hit me, stupid!'. |
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Jun 14 2006, 07:58 PM
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#11
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,266 Joined: 3-June 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,638 |
Those all got posted pretty quickly!
I really don't think a projecting mage can move a physically present foci around like a weapon. Foci are only astrally present while active, and they must be in contact with their owner to be active. As for Devil rats.... I jusst don't want to go there! |
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Jun 14 2006, 08:05 PM
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#12
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Would you prefer awakended, dual-natured chicken? ;) |
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Jun 14 2006, 08:07 PM
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#13
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Good point.
That's really the question here. We know it can be attacked from astral space, but can it be moved, or does the physical location always override the astral form and force the astral form to conform to the physical form? *whew* A related question is, I guess, if you're walking along with active foci and you pass through a barrier do you feel a tug? I know if you force a focus through a barrier then they "fight" and either the focus deactivates or the barrier fails, but what constitutes "forcing"? Do you really have to push, or does just walking through count? I always figured it would be the latter, so someone passing through a ward would be kind of like the T-1000 walking through the bars and being jerked back as they realize their gun can't fit through. But I don't really have any quotes to back me up on that. |
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Jun 14 2006, 08:10 PM
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#14
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
So then all you need to do, is stuff the foci inside their mage, then bludgeon people with the mage/foci combonation. Just seat it somewhere sturdy, like in the ribcage, and bludgeon away.
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Jun 14 2006, 08:32 PM
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#15
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Keep in mind that the mage/focus/critter will eventually take damage while doing so, and be destroyed/killed at last.
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Jun 14 2006, 08:36 PM
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#16
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Accoding to Target:Awakened Lands, Astral Constructs will support the weight of dual beings provided that they are strong enough. An astrally percieving mage could sit on a chair that only exists on the astral plane with no problem. Likewise, he could climb an astral ladder without difficulty. If he were permenantly dual natured he could even sleep in an astral bed with astral sheeps, although I suspect it would be drafty.
Purely astral things can, at least, defeat the force of gravity on a dual being. However, astral constructs are rather unique in that they act like physical objects on the astral plane. You can't stand on a ward, you'd just fall through it. This leaves the question of a astral magician beating someone to death with a devil rat open for debate. Form a game balance perspective I say no. From a funny perspective I say yes. |
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Jun 14 2006, 08:39 PM
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#17
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
But ewe wouldn't want to. :D Hmmmm, thanks for the feedback. It definitely seems like it should be a no-no, but I'm not sure. |
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Jun 14 2006, 08:45 PM
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#18
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,579 Joined: 30-May 06 From: SoCal Member No.: 8,626 |
Do mages dream of astral sheep? |
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Jun 14 2006, 09:09 PM
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#19
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,479 Joined: 6-May 05 From: Idaho Member No.: 7,377 |
Devil rats aren't dual natured.
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Jun 14 2006, 09:56 PM
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#20
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Hrm - you are right, indeed... edition inconsistency strikes again. ;) |
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Jun 14 2006, 10:01 PM
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#21
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,664 Joined: 21-September 04 From: Arvada, CO Member No.: 6,686 |
It would seem devil rats, vampires, and wendigos are the only paranormal critters that aren't dual natured. How odd. In critters, they were dual natured, and now in SR4, they suddenly aren't?
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Jun 14 2006, 10:26 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 511 Joined: 24-March 05 From: On a ledge between Heaven and Hell Member No.: 7,226 |
Where as you can not attack through a foci, you can attack the foci.
Sure you can dispell it but that is only a momentary inconvenience for the mage. Note that such an inconvenience during combat can still be deadly. The levitating invisible mage sneaking into a Coven's sanitary was none to happy when all his foci broke. Botches on stealth can be fun. |
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Jun 16 2006, 04:09 AM
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#23
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: You would not believe the things that went through my mind the first time I read that sentence... :eek: |
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Jun 16 2006, 04:14 AM
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#24
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,266 Joined: 3-June 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,638 |
Scary thought.
Welsh Shamans with a sheep totem. *shudder* |
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