IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> attacking through foci?, could in SR3, can you in SR4?
mrcatman
post Jun 13 2006, 11:06 PM
Post #1


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 21
Joined: 10-May 06
Member No.: 8,546



Maybe I just can't find the rule in SR4, but it does not seem that you can attack someone through their foci anymore.

In our SR3 games, the big drawback to having foci around was that enemy astrally projecting mages could blast you and your team in the physical through that foci.

If that is no longer the case, is there any drawbacks to having foci other than glowing like a beacon as if to say, "I'm here, right here!" in the astral?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kanada Ten
post Jun 13 2006, 11:09 PM
Post #2


Beetle Eater
********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 4,797
Joined: 3-June 02
From: Oblivion City
Member No.: 2,826



You actually couldn't do that in SR3 either. SR2 and SR1 both allowed active foci to act as a bridge for "grounding spells".

There is a couple of limits on active foci number and force, now, and they can still be attacked via astral space (just not grounded through) or set off wards.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
mrcatman
post Jun 13 2006, 11:20 PM
Post #3


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 21
Joined: 10-May 06
Member No.: 8,546



QUOTE (Kanada Ten)
You actually couldn't do that in SR3 either. SR2 and SR1 both allowed active foci to act as a bridge for "grounding spells".

There is a couple of limits on active foci number and force, now, and they can still be attacked via astral space (just not grounded through) or set off wards.

(grin) Well, whichever version it was, I remember people doing it.

Would you mind pointing me to the page with the rules on attacking foci (assumedly to destroy them) in astral space? That would certainly be a downside to having them.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Kanada Ten
post Jun 13 2006, 11:41 PM
Post #4


Beetle Eater
********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 4,797
Joined: 3-June 02
From: Oblivion City
Member No.: 2,826



"When active, a Focus has an Astral Form." (p. 191)
Objects with an Astral Form can be affected by physical damage in astral combat (p. 184)
"While astrally perceiving, a magician can cast mana spells at astral opponents. Other astral forms can engage an astrally perceiving magician in astral combat (p. 184) or cast mana spells at him as well." (p. 182)
Disrupted foci are deactivated (p. 186).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Rotbart van Dain...
post Jun 14 2006, 07:47 PM
Post #5


Hoppelhäschen 5000
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,807
Joined: 3-January 04
Member No.: 5,951



QUOTE (mrcatman)
Maybe I just can't find the rule in SR4, but it does not seem that you can attack someone through their foci anymore.

Of course you can... Foci still are dual-nantured, meaning they move simultaneously on both planes.

Combined with the fact that Charisma is used as Strength on the astral plane, that can result in some real slap-stick kind of attacks.
(And for those who can't afford their enemies to feature foci... use stunned devil rats.) :grinbig:
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Nim
post Jun 14 2006, 07:50 PM
Post #6


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 244
Joined: 8-June 06
Member No.: 8,681



QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)
QUOTE (mrcatman)
Maybe I just can't find the rule in SR4, but it does not seem that you can attack someone through their foci anymore.

Of course you can... Foci still are dual-nantured, meaning they move simultaneously on both planes.

Combined with the fact that Charisma is used as Strength on the astral plane, that can result in some real slap-stick kind of attacks.
(And for those who can't afford their enemies to feature foci... use stunned devil rats.) :grinbig:

What sort of 'attack someone through their foci' are you saying 'of course you can' to, specifically?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Moon-Hawk
post Jun 14 2006, 07:51 PM
Post #7


Genuine Artificial Intelligence
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,019
Joined: 12-June 03
Member No.: 4,715



So what you're saying is, while an astral form can't ground a spell through an active focus, they can grasp it and physically bludgeon someone with it?
That is, I have to admit, a hilarious idea. But taking it off their person would cause it to deactive, right? Then again, that sounds like a pretty darn convenient way to deactivate a focus. Hmmmm, something's not right here.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Squinky
post Jun 14 2006, 07:52 PM
Post #8


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,479
Joined: 6-May 05
From: Idaho
Member No.: 7,377



Edit-Now I see where this is going.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ornot
post Jun 14 2006, 07:55 PM
Post #9


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,266
Joined: 3-June 06
From: UK
Member No.: 8,638



I had a GM who fondly recalled schooling a mage with too many spell locks in SR2 by grounding fireballs through them. But then spell locks were absolutely gross!

I'm pretty sure that grounding a spell from the astral to the physical through a foci was done away with in SR3 though. A foci's magical nature can of course be disrupted by attacking it in the astral, but only while it is active, and I don't think the foci can be permenantly harmed from the astral either although I could be wrong.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Rotbart van Dain...
post Jun 14 2006, 07:57 PM
Post #10


Hoppelhäschen 5000
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,807
Joined: 3-January 04
Member No.: 5,951



QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
So what you're saying is, while an astral form can't ground a spell through an active focus, they can grasp it and physically bludgeon someone with it?
That is, I have to admit, a hilarious idea.

And that doesn't even include the ugly possibilities jewelry offers - especially... piercings.

QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
But taking it off their person would cause it to deactive, right?  Then again, that sounds like a pretty darn convenient way to deactivate a focus.  Hmmmm, something's not right here.

Well, using unmasked foci while not astrally perceiving is the equivalent of running around blindfolded... with your hands tied behind your back, and an ARO screaming 'Hit me, stupid!'.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ornot
post Jun 14 2006, 07:58 PM
Post #11


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,266
Joined: 3-June 06
From: UK
Member No.: 8,638



Those all got posted pretty quickly!

I really don't think a projecting mage can move a physically present foci around like a weapon. Foci are only astrally present while active, and they must be in contact with their owner to be active.

As for Devil rats.... I jusst don't want to go there!
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Rotbart van Dain...
post Jun 14 2006, 08:05 PM
Post #12


Hoppelhäschen 5000
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,807
Joined: 3-January 04
Member No.: 5,951



QUOTE (ornot)
As for Devil rats.... I jusst don't want to go there!

Would you prefer awakended, dual-natured chicken? ;)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Moon-Hawk
post Jun 14 2006, 08:07 PM
Post #13


Genuine Artificial Intelligence
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,019
Joined: 12-June 03
Member No.: 4,715



QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig)
Well, using unmasked foci while not astrally perceiving is the equivalent of running around blindfolded... with your hands tied behind your back, and an ARO screaming 'Hit me, stupid!'.

Good point.

QUOTE (ornot)
I really don't think a projecting mage can move a physically present foci around like a weapon.

That's really the question here. We know it can be attacked from astral space, but can it be moved, or does the physical location always override the astral form and force the astral form to conform to the physical form? *whew*
A related question is, I guess, if you're walking along with active foci and you pass through a barrier do you feel a tug? I know if you force a focus through a barrier then they "fight" and either the focus deactivates or the barrier fails, but what constitutes "forcing"? Do you really have to push, or does just walking through count?
I always figured it would be the latter, so someone passing through a ward would be kind of like the T-1000 walking through the bars and being jerked back as they realize their gun can't fit through. But I don't really have any quotes to back me up on that.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tarantula
post Jun 14 2006, 08:10 PM
Post #14


Dragon
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,664
Joined: 21-September 04
From: Arvada, CO
Member No.: 6,686



So then all you need to do, is stuff the foci inside their mage, then bludgeon people with the mage/foci combonation. Just seat it somewhere sturdy, like in the ribcage, and bludgeon away.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Rotbart van Dain...
post Jun 14 2006, 08:32 PM
Post #15


Hoppelhäschen 5000
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,807
Joined: 3-January 04
Member No.: 5,951



Keep in mind that the mage/focus/critter will eventually take damage while doing so, and be destroyed/killed at last.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
hyzmarca
post Jun 14 2006, 08:36 PM
Post #16


Midnight Toker
**********

Group: Members
Posts: 7,686
Joined: 4-July 04
From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop
Member No.: 6,456



Accoding to Target:Awakened Lands, Astral Constructs will support the weight of dual beings provided that they are strong enough. An astrally percieving mage could sit on a chair that only exists on the astral plane with no problem. Likewise, he could climb an astral ladder without difficulty. If he were permenantly dual natured he could even sleep in an astral bed with astral sheeps, although I suspect it would be drafty.

Purely astral things can, at least, defeat the force of gravity on a dual being. However, astral constructs are rather unique in that they act like physical objects on the astral plane. You can't stand on a ward, you'd just fall through it. This leaves the question of a astral magician beating someone to death with a devil rat open for debate. Form a game balance perspective I say no. From a funny perspective I say yes.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Moon-Hawk
post Jun 14 2006, 08:39 PM
Post #17


Genuine Artificial Intelligence
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,019
Joined: 12-June 03
Member No.: 4,715



QUOTE (hyzmarca)
If he were permenantly dual natured he could even sleep in an astral bed with astral sheeps, although I suspect it would be drafty.

But ewe wouldn't want to. :D
Hmmmm, thanks for the feedback. It definitely seems like it should be a no-no, but I'm not sure.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
X-Kalibur
post Jun 14 2006, 08:45 PM
Post #18


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,579
Joined: 30-May 06
From: SoCal
Member No.: 8,626



QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Jun 14 2006, 03:36 PM)
If he were permenantly dual natured he could even sleep in an astral bed with astral sheeps, although I suspect it would be drafty.

But ewe wouldn't want to. :D
Hmmmm, thanks for the feedback. It definitely seems like it should be a no-no, but I'm not sure.

Do mages dream of astral sheep?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Squinky
post Jun 14 2006, 09:09 PM
Post #19


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,479
Joined: 6-May 05
From: Idaho
Member No.: 7,377



Devil rats aren't dual natured.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Rotbart van Dain...
post Jun 14 2006, 09:56 PM
Post #20


Hoppelhäschen 5000
*********

Group: Members
Posts: 5,807
Joined: 3-January 04
Member No.: 5,951



QUOTE (Squinky)
Devil rats aren't dual natured.

Hrm - you are right, indeed... edition inconsistency strikes again. ;)
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Tarantula
post Jun 14 2006, 10:01 PM
Post #21


Dragon
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,664
Joined: 21-September 04
From: Arvada, CO
Member No.: 6,686



It would seem devil rats, vampires, and wendigos are the only paranormal critters that aren't dual natured. How odd. In critters, they were dual natured, and now in SR4, they suddenly aren't?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Demon_Bob
post Jun 14 2006, 10:26 PM
Post #22


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 511
Joined: 24-March 05
From: On a ledge between Heaven and Hell
Member No.: 7,226



Where as you can not attack through a foci, you can attack the foci.

Sure you can dispell it but that is only a momentary inconvenience for the mage.
Note that such an inconvenience during combat can still be deadly.

The levitating invisible mage sneaking into a Coven's sanitary was none to happy when all his foci broke. Botches on stealth can be fun.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Cain
post Jun 16 2006, 04:09 AM
Post #23


Grand Master of Run-Fu
*********

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 6,840
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Tir Tairngire
Member No.: 178



QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Jun 14 2006, 03:36 PM)
If he were permenantly dual natured he could even sleep in an astral bed with astral sheeps, although I suspect it would be drafty.

But ewe wouldn't want to. :D

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

You would not believe the things that went through my mind the first time I read that sentence... :eek:
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
ornot
post Jun 16 2006, 04:14 AM
Post #24


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,266
Joined: 3-June 06
From: UK
Member No.: 8,638



Scary thought.

Welsh Shamans with a sheep totem.

*shudder*
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 28th May 2024 - 12:14 AM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.