Meet my ally spirit...a motorcycle? Options Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic Download this topic Subscribe to this forum Display Modes Switch to: Outline Standard Switch to: Linear+

[Abbandon]

Im rereading one of my shadowrun novels and there is this mage who has an ally spirit. He also calls it a familiar spirit. It can turn into a motorcycle...

Can someone explain how spirits can turn into useable objects like that?? Does that mean you could have a spirit turn into a grenade launcher or a tank ??

[Moon-Hawk]

It's just a motorcycle shaped materialized spirit that he sits on. Spirits can move pretty fast, anyway. Who cares what it looks like?
It could turn into the shape of a tank if the GM let it be that big, but it won't change it's armor value one bit. Maybe a small tank, like a drone. Still won't effect its armor, though.
I see no problem with turning into a grenade launcher, either. It's not all that overpowered. You'd still need the actual grenades to load it.

[Toptomcat]

That raises the issue- if a spirit shaped as a gun can fire ammunition- and kill people, then why can't a spirit shaped as a motorcycle burn fuel- and go faster?

[James McMurray]

No reason at all why it couldn't, if you allow the gun option.

Heck, why not have it turn into a power generator of some sort. It has complete control over itself so could tunr the turbines without needing an external source of energy like steam or a waterfall. It would also have the benefit of being incredibly silent.

Infinite free power at the expense of one spirit. Having a spirit with no powers except alternate form would probably be pretty cheap in terms of karma requirements. Give it the ability to cast silence and invisibility on itself if you're paranoid.

[Witness]

[James McMurray]

You can't be arsed? I'm not sure what that means in the UK but I doubt it means what I think it means. :)

[hyzmarca]

Yoou can already enchant a physical power generator as a homunculus so there is little problem with it.

My position is that every detail of an ally spirit's form must be a part of its formula. If you wanted an ally spirit to look like a motorcycle it is realitivly east. If you want an ally spirit to act like a morotcycle you'll have a design a fully functional motorcycle from the ground up and inorporate that design into the ally spirit formula. This requires a motorcycle B/R test with a realitivly high TN and a duration of several months followed by a conjuring test to design the actual formula. Wether or not the Motorcycle design test was successful will not be known untill the ally is created or a prototype motorcycle is produced to specifications. Failure means that the motorcycle form either won't function at all or is prone to horrific mechanical failures during use at the GM's discression.

[James McMurray]

Why from the ground up?

[hyzmarca]

[ronin3338]

Because from the ground down would require a lot of digging?

:silly:
(sorry, couldn't resist)

[James McMurray]

Would you require them to design a fully functional bunny rabbit from the ground up if they wanted it to hop like a bunny? Biological forms are usually vastly more complex than mechanical ones.

I could read a book about motorcycles and understand all the tiniest parts of the designs in the back without having to actually design one myself.

Discouraging people from creating an absurd number of forms can be done just by looking sideways at them and rolling your eyes. Adding more rules to the design process would probably result in either unnecessary complication or inconsistencies.

[Shadow]

The mages name is Talon, and he is the biggest munchkin piece of crap anyone ever wrote. As far as I know the author had no to little knowledge of how Shadowrun worked and gave the guy an ally spirit that turned into a Motorcycle cause it was cool.

I seem to recall a sam from one of the books who used duel Smartlinks at the same time to shoot two different opponents. Don't look to the books for the rules, some of the authors couldn't be bothered to research Shadowrun before writing about it.

[James McMurray]

You can use dual smartguns, you just don't get any benefit from it. The targeting reticles hsould still be in your field of vision.

[Platinum]

What makes it even more sickening is said writer wrote two of the magic sourcebooks. He had a firm grasp of the rules. Some characters and writers just seem to suffer from megalo-munchkinamania. An extreme mutation of the munchkanism strain.

[hyzmarca]

Actually, a motorcycle ally spirit form is perfectly within the rules. MitS specificly states that an ally's form can be "anything at all ,from a metahuman to an animal to a mechanical device, subject to gamemaster aproval."

[Shadow]

[Platinum]

[Shadow]

[hyzmarca]

You can't recieve smartgun bonuses when dual-wielding. You can use two different smartguns in two different hands as two seperate actions and recieve the full bonus for both shots.

[X-Kalibur]

Honestly though, they are books, they all suffer from this. Look at R.A. Salvatore? They killed a dragon with an icicle... I don't care how fraggin' big it was, not happening.

[Platinum]

HAHA ... Not in shadowrun any how. Nukes, missles, tanks and airplanes, can't kill a dragon here.... let alone something like ICE.

anyhow ... back at to the topic ... isn't there a karma cost related to the form? machine is a complex form and would cost more and add a higher tn to the formula than a sword. A gun as well would have more cost to it.

[eidolon]

The thing I think you're missing is while you can have an ally spirit that looks like a motorcycle, it isn't a motorcycle. It just looks like one (and perhaps has the ability to simulate the appearance of moving parts and the noise of an engine). It's not physically a motorcycle, it's basically a tangible illusion of one. Whoever said "it's a spirit with the movement power that he sits on" had it right, Moon-Hawk I think. (It's soooo far up the page...;)).

(On the note of moving parts and the noise, I'd make the player spend the K to give it phantasm at the least if he expected the spirit to be able to do this.)

It doesn't matter if the machine is complex or simple, because you aren't creating a machine. You're simply telling the spirit "Hey, you see that thing over there? Look like that." (not literally, explain it in story how you like). By the same token, if you had your spirit turn into a gun, it couldn't fire regular ammunition, because it only looks like a gun. If you wanted it to fire anything, you would have to construct it with some sort of attack power, like the fireball spell or something.

Nowhere in any book that I can think of does a spirit ever deviate from the fact that no matter what it looks like, it's still a spirit; with spirit powers, spirit attributes, and spirit weaknesses. (Barring absurdly written novels, which I in no way ever attempt to mesh with canon because they so seldom equate.)

[Shadow]

[James McMurray]

[Kanada Ten]

I agree with Eidolon, and will also point out that the Wild Hunt is conjured with a chariot and whip, etcetera.