 Knife Amnesty in UK, Some stuff they turned in |
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 Jun 17 2006, 07:56 AM
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#26
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Immortal Elf  Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670  |
so... any figures on the number of knives turned in by folks who actually make a regular habit of stabbing people?
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Jun 17 2006, 10:20 AM
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#27
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
Somewhere between 0 and 3. (assuming some of them loot their victims)
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Jun 17 2006, 12:24 PM
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#28
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
I look at it from the perspective of "could I live with myself if some sixteen-year-old killed me, or my girlfriend/brother/friend?" My carry gun isn't there because there's a "chance I might use it," it's there because there's a chance I might need to use it. I understand that you'd have a hard time dealing with killing someone... I don't expect I'd have any easier of a time. But I've been in several fights in my life, and in the end felt justified in my actions in most of them. I don't pick fights, I just don't particularly feel like being on the recieving end of someone who's decided they're going to do me harm. ------------- A few months ago, the bus I was riding on had to pull around a car blocking the bus lane in front of the stop to let people off, then back into traffic before it could keep going forwards. On my way past the car blocking the lane, I leaned over and said to the driver "Hey, man... you're in a bus lane." Simple as that. No sarcasm, no sneer or gesture, just a pointer in case he hadn't noticed the big stripe on the curb. I walked to the end of the block and headed uphill towards my apartment. The driver of the car pulled out into traffic, pulled a u-turn somewhere, and caught up to me about two blocks away from where we'd first met. I heard a car braking hard in the road next to me, and turned to see the driver leaning out of his window, screaming "You got something you want to say to me?" A little shocked, I blinked, and told him "I said, you were in a bus lane." At which point the guy started to get out of the car. Now, a number of things went through my head at this point. I reasoned that I might be able to outrun this guy, might be able to handle him in a fight, or might be able to talk my way out of the situation. It also occurred to me that if he was faster than I was, running wasn't a good option... if he was stronger, fighting him wasn't a good option... and if he was pissed off or mentally unbalanced (which seemed likely, as he was in the process of climbing out of his car having just come two blocks to scream at me), talking my way out of it wasn't a likely solution either. So, I had options, but none of them felt reliably good enough for my personal safety. If he had a weapon, my odds for any of those solutions dropped enormously, since in that hypothetical, he'd be getting out of the car with it. What kept me from having to find out was, of all things, the guy's mother (best guess based on family resemblance and having 25+ years on the guy) saying to him "Get Back In The Car." The driver looked back at her in the passenger seat, glared at me, climbed back into his car, shouted something unintelligible, and drove off. ------------- Getting killed because I tried to do something vaguely positive for some guy with an attitude struck me as a phenomenally stupid way to die, and that's when I decided to start carrying a handgun. I acknowledge that there's a chance I might use it, because I carry it in case I need it. The gun is, and should always be, the last solution applied to a problem... but I don't particularly feel like finding myself facing the problem, and not having the solution at hand. When it comes down to it, laws and the police are not finally responsible for your personal safety... you are. If someone puts a knife in your chest or hits you with his car for some reason, it's true that he's guilty of a crime; you're just guilty of failing to protect yourself from a threat. If the guy who killed me, or a loved one I was with, goes to jail, all it does is punish/rehabilitate him... it doesn't undo the death. I've got no intention of stopping living any time soon, and there didn't seem to be any good reason for me not to have the option of shooting the threat, if it came down to that. Could I live with myself had I killed some 16 year old? If he was trying to kill me, I could probably use a little therapy afterwards... but getting stabbed to death by a 16 year old doesn't make you any less dead than if he was in his thirties. |
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Jun 17 2006, 01:11 PM
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#29
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Shrike, dude... You win a cookie, and a sigging.
He's right. You are responsible for protecting yourself. The police? Their job is to enforce the laws. I don't know about England, but in America the police have been time and time again absolved of any blame in failing to protect an innocent person from a predator. While it is true, I would say, that every policeman would rather take a bullet or a knife than let you take it, that policeman may not be in range to take the knife or the shot for you. In fact, even in a densely packed urban zone with a lot of policemen, their response time may be up to ten minutes - time for a cruiser in the area to figure out which building or alley or street you're on, time for them to find somewhere to park, and time for them to thunder back from their parking spot to where you are. Now, if someone's broken into your flat with no idea you're home and they're only out for your money, this is an acceptable response time. Even if they don't catch the perp red-handed, your insurance (you do have insurance, right?) will cover the loss if the police fail to recapture your stolen goods. But what if he's out for your blood? What if he wants to rape and strangle your little sister, mmm? He's probably drunk or high or both or else MAJORLY unstable to decide to commit B&E followed by a little sexually-aggrevated A&B. Are you 100% percent certain you could fight this guy off physically? If your name is Arnold Schwartzenneger, you probably could turn this guy into meat. Even if you don't spend as many hours at the gym as most wageslaves spend at their desks, you might be able to. What if you're not home. Can your little sister acomplish the same feat, or are you going to come home to find the flat's door off the hinges, her cold body with blue lips laying on her bed in an obscene spread-eagled pose and the liquid evidence of the heinous act seeping from her vagina? Could you live with that, safe and sound in that she didn't escalate the situation by drawing a knife to defend herself? Now, what if he's got a knife? Hers or your chances drop dramatically. Even Arnold's muscles won't protect him against 6-8 inches of cold steel. Simply put, you[/o], not the police, are in charge of your security. The rich and the famous? They don't have to be. They can hire bodyguards. They can also hire chaufers and chefs - most of us make do being our own chaufer and chef. We also have to be our own bodyguard. Now to get back to a personal example. I was driving home one day from college, it was a bright, sunshining day, weather was beautiful. This is a small town, technically rural in nature. I decidedto take the back roads slow, singing loudly and off-key to my radio. Some asshole in a big black ford pickup, despite the fact that I was only doing five under the legal speed-limit, decided to tailgate me. This was when I drove a tiny 1992 Chrystler Acclaim. (I've since graduated to a 1998 Dodge Durango XLT. It's the size of a pickup truck with an 8-cylander magnum engine to match. This thing has some serious horses going for it.) The dude eventually decided to squeal off behind me, burning out and tearing off down the road (speed limit 25, children often play on this road) at about 60. I thought that was the end of it, so I continued to home, which was literally just up the street. Then to my shock, the dude rematerializes coming down my street, spinning his truck to block the intersection as I hit the brakes, and gets out of his truck, heading towards me. I panic - this is one big, 250 lb redneck motherfucker, and though I had him outweighed, I'm carrying fat, not muscle. I coudlen't see a weapon on him, but I had the sneaking suspicion there was a gun in that truck, and I'd have bet dollars to pesos he had a big ole' pocket knife. I slam the car in reverse, squeal down half the street, and sideswipe someone else's car. Redneck Motherfucker decides to get the hell out of here when he sees me on my cell phone, calling the police, hysterical. The police station is literally just up the street. I can [i]see it. I'm on the phone, hysterically telling them that he came after me, and I'm literally just up the street, my car jammed on someone else's car, and I coulden't get it moving. FORTUNATELY, Redneck Motherfucker decided to leave that day. But do you know how long it took for that police station to hemmorage uniformed officers of the law? Ten Minutes. Ten mother-fucking minutes, and I was literally within walking distance. Five seconds at the speed a police cruiser with the hammer down. When they did get to their cars, they burned a path to me, it's true, sirens blazing, while I'm a gibbering wreck in my sedan's seat. But the fact is that it took them ten minutes to respond to a potentially violent and deadly encounter involving autos and agression, that occured practically in the shadow of the police department itself. That was the day I resolved that I was going to keep shooting with my uncle until I was confident and safe in it's proper use and maintenance and storage, and apply for a concealed carry permit as soon as I'm capable. I won't depend on the police to protect me again. I won't wait for them to haul their asses out of wherever they were and burn rubber to get to me. I don't want to kill someone, not a 16-year old, not a 60-year-old, not a 32-pound power-tripping Redneck Motherfucker who's probably late for a date with his sister. But if they want to do this kind of crazy thing, I will be ready to stop it. I won't be a helpless victim, and if at all possible, nobody around me will be either. A responsible, safe gun-owner who carries for self-defense is not just an asset to himself, he's an asset to everyone around him, both passively and actively. This is America, you never know who's carrying. Is that guy with the trimmed beard, white shirt and blue jeans packing a firearm? Is that black-skinned youth playing B-ball? That woman in heels and a bisuness suit, how sure are you that that bulge in her pocket is her cell phone and not her 9mm? Even if none of them are armed, they could be, and that alone gives predators pause. And when they decide to risk it, it could be the white guy with the beard drawing his piece and telling him to back the hell off of the kid - it could be the black kid telling the mother-@^@*er to leave the lady alone, it could be the lady pulling her gun on the guy with the knife acosting the white guy. My point is that you need not fear ten thousand armed people who responsibly carry and with a solemn duty use their weapons, be those weapons fists, clubs, spears, swords, bows, knives, or firearms. It's a tool, just like any else, and if he can hurt you with it, you can defend yourself with it. These are the guys who tend to wind up losing their firearms and their decorative and cooking knives to these "Amnesty" and "guns for cash" programs. That hoodlum, that drug-dealer, that drunk redneck who likes to push around fat boys? He's never going to give up his gun or his knife, and he always knows how to get one, even if they find his old one and take it from him. All these programs do is disarm the people in the face of violence. And before you say "My country is peaceful and has little armed violence, I have no need of a gun", I will ask if you are male. If you are, do you enjoy sex? If you do, do you carry a condom or two in your wallet, even when you don't anticipate sex? If you don't, what kind of irresponsible jackass are you? If you are, you understand that preperation is not paranoia, and having a condom in your walllet does not mean you're a rabbit, jumping everything female. Or maybe you are, in which case you're defniately prepared. Carrying a gun does not make you paranoid, nor does it mean you're going to flip out and kill someone. They're fun to shoot at a target range, and there are gun sports such as competitive shooting or hunting that you can engage in, if you want to. Or you can just stick with range time and a determination not to be victimized. |
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Jun 17 2006, 01:56 PM
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#30
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
EDIT: This was originally intended to respond to Shrike30's post. Shadowdragon sneaked in there before me, so when I say "you" in this post I'm meaning Shrike rather than her.
That I 100% agree with. All that I've said has been based on pragmatism. If someone threatens you, even with a weapon, then in my experience and based on psychology studies by (of all people) the US army, then they're not likely to actually follow through and try to murder you. But that 1 in 10 chance instantly becomes 50:50 if you pull a weapon on them. Probably more with a gun as the threat level to them has just increased even more than a with a knife. Now a knife or gun fight is such a very high-stakes game with such a random probability of success that best chance of survival lies absolutely in doing everything you can to avoid the game beginning in the first place. Now your response to this will be that just because you have a gun or a knife, doesn't mean you have to pull it out or use it if you do. And you are correct. But you carry a gun for the same reason most other relatively sane people who carry guns do - fear. Understand that I don't know you, and I don't use this in a pejorative sense. Fear is a normal and sane emotion. Alternately, perhaps you prefer to say that you're not governed by fear but are purely pragmatic in which case accept that what I'm saying only applies to other people. I'm happy to agree to any level of common sense and courage on your part, but I will not accept that it applies to the majority of people. Fear can cause you to draw that weapon when you shouldn't. Even if were you completely logical, your judgement can still be gravely wrong. At which point do you decide that your best chance is to draw a weapon? When you're initially threatened? This is the nightmare I had about my friend. Somebody would shove him and he'd panic and pull out his fucking hammer. He'd either fracture someone's skull or (more likely) get himself very badly hurt. In either case, he'd have escalated a minor situation. Carrying weapons leads to that sort of escalation - people are very jumpy. And while, as I mentioned, I am willing to accept that you are a creature of good judgement and brave enough to handle yourself well, I think the majority of people who carry a weapon for protection are frightened enough that they will make a bad situation very very much worse. I return to the example of my friend. I don't have the worst background in the world, but I was familiar enough with confrontation that I didn't see everything magnified out of proportion. I was able to live along a fairly rough area for four years and only had a situation turn physical once. I attribute that mainly to staying relaxed, talking and not fingering a gun or knife in my pocket during a confrontation. In the situation where it did turn physical, I got a bruised leg ( and the usual adrenalin poisioning ;) ) If I'd pulled a knife, or one had been found on me, I think at the least I'd have been left with some nasty scars. So even if you don't panic, when do you make the decision to pull your weapon? When one is drawn on you? At this point, going for a weapon, especially if it is a gun that is drawn on you, is likely to make things worse. I'm not Billy the Kid. I can think of very few scenarios where having a weapon on me doesn't actually increase the likelyhood of me being seriously hurt. In the example you gave, and I acknowledge that I'm basing this on what you've posted so far and not on any other details I'm not aware of about the situation. You got away with the heinous crime of criticising someone's driving (how dare you! ;) ) maybe because you didn't pull out a gun on this guy. If he had pulled one on you, would you have really been able to quick draw and shoot him? I'm fairly certain that you would have turned a possible intent to shoot you (though more likely just posture to establish dominance) into a definite attempt to shoot you. And that's the problem in a nutshell. Knives, and very much more so guns, give advantage to the aggressor. In carrying a weapon, I am entertaining the possibility of me being the aggressor, as I think are most if not all other people who would carry a weapon to protect themselves. I hope all this is taken in the spirit which it is meant - I.e. a civil discussion and not intended to trivialise another's take on this. We've both brought in personal anecdotes, and I've used yours as the basis for discussing some of my argument. That doesn't mean I think the situation was any less bad. I've been in similar situations with similarly perspective-lacking people myself. It's not pleasant, it can leave you in a state of mild shock and you're probably to be commended for staying calm. I'm just outlying my beliefs based on my personal experiences and thinking on the matter. |
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Jun 17 2006, 03:05 PM
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#31
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Knasser, unfortunately you forget one very important thing.
Unless he's high (on drugs, or power), he isen't going to want to risk his neck any more than you do. The same applies. He has a knife. He's ten paces from me. I have a knife. I pull my knife, after his is already pulled. Yes, I'm thinking "This bloke could stick me..." But he's also thinking "this bloke can stick me..." Unless he's willing to risk getting stuck in order to stick me, he's going to back down and say "whatever man" or maybe just run away, because he's a coward at heart. Otherwise he woulden't be mugging people with a knife. Now if he pulls a knife, and I pull a gun, I'm thinkg "Okay... If he gets over here, he can stick me. But I can and will kill him before that happens." On the other hand, he is thinking "HOLY FUCK, THIS CRAZY CRACKER HAS A GUN!" and unless he's high on cocaine or something, he's going to run for his scrawny little life. Even if he has a gun, I have a gun. And if you want to quote stastics, here's one for you. You are 70% more likely to survive an encounter with an armed thug, armed with knife or gun, with yourself and your belongings intact, if you resist with a firearm than if you do not. You know who put that figure out? The United States Department of Justice. The army figure you quote is pertinent to soldiers in a combat zone. If someone's trying to take you prisoner, chances are he dosen't want to shoot you once he has you prisoner. But if you go for your gun, he will fire, and so will you, and then it's down to who had the drop and the better skills. Armed thugs on the street are not soldiers. At the end of the day, they want money, safety, and enjoyment. That's why they do what they do. He dosen't want to risk his life in a battle to the death. Because he's not willing to take that chance. He's a predator, and guess what most predators do when they find out their prey has fangs? The run away and find easier prey. |
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Jun 17 2006, 03:08 PM
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#32
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Oh, and before you say it, if he has a gun leveled at you at close range, obviously you don't want to start shit. Unless you can duck behind a corner or something. He probably dosen't have the reflexes to hit you before you get behind cover unless he's literally a foot behind you, in which case you're already toast, just do what he says. But if you have any hope of ducking away for an instant (and you usually do,) or if you're smart and have your gun somewhere you can draw it where he won't see it (guess where most people keep their wallets? Their back pockets. Going for a small-of-the-back holster and your wallet looks much the same, especially if you're wearing a jacket and it' dark out.)
Once your gun is out and his is out, it's a Mexican Standoff. Neither of you really wants to shoot. He's probably going to run away. And even if he gets stupid, I'd rather take the chance on being a faster and better shot than he is than let him have his way with me. |
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Jun 17 2006, 07:29 PM
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#33
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
That's bullshit. If he was a predator he'd have killed and started eating you before you could have thought about pulling a gun. ~J, who abhors the misuse of the word "predator". |
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Jun 17 2006, 08:16 PM
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#34
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
The word "Predator" dosen't only require the use of carnivorous cannibalism. Economic predators are just as much predators as a lion - as are the ones that pull a knife and demand your fucking money. He's a predator, and he dosen't deserve my paper, he deserves a significantly heavier metal. My lead. |
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Jun 17 2006, 08:20 PM
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#35
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Bringing this back to shadowrun, muggings must be rarer now with the nigh-universal advent of electronic currencies. Alternatives would gain favor. I can just see it now "Your kidney or your life!"
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Jun 17 2006, 08:33 PM
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#36
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Nah. People tend to carry comlinks. Those are expensive enough for professional Shadowrunners to scoop in the middle of the run, so they'd probably be the single most coveted item for muggers to target.
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Jun 17 2006, 09:43 PM
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#37
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
I suspect that there will be a window of a few hours before the victim reports his credstick stolen and this information can be distributed throuout the worldwide finiancial network. If you're fast you can get away with a small spending spree and you can even feel good about it because the bank will take most of the damage.
With comlinks you can even have E-muggings. Force the guy to transmit his bank codes to you and empty his bank account online before letting him leave. Heck, yesterday I saw a news article about electronic pickpocketing of Speedpass RFID tags. Just walk by someone with an RFID reader in your pocket. They'll have no clue untill they are presented with a $150,000 bill at the end of the month. |
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Jun 17 2006, 10:20 PM
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#38
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Hah! Nice one, Hyz. :)
Guess that poor sod wound up having a whole lot of fun, eh? |
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Jun 17 2006, 10:30 PM
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#39
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
ah, weapon debates and dumpshock, allways a fun read :silly:
personaly, im with knasser. you dont want to give the guy at the other end any reason for giving up the last bit of logic thats operating in his mind. the moment his life is on the line, he will go into instinct mode. thats either fight or flight, or some training to the level of reflex. if someone wanted to rob me i would hand it over, my life isnt worth lost over money or similar. as for some crazed lunatic breaking into my home and going hannibal on me and my family. likelyhood of that may increase as the size of the city increases, but i still find it compareable to being affraid of being hit by a bolt of lightning or being on a airplane that falls out of the sky... but thats just me, and my view of the world. and as people here on the forum most likely allready know, its not much compareable to many others view. least of all those that are from the left side of the atlantic. |
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Jun 17 2006, 10:56 PM
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#40
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/predator http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/p/p0514700.html http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/predator (and then look at the second definition of prey's intransitive verb form, which for some reason gives a generic link instead of one that leads directly to it) - James, who deplores people who assume that what they think a word means is all that it means :) Besides, even if he were predatory in that manner, there's nothing saying you wouldn't have spotted him and shot him long before he tried to eat you. Prey fights off, and sometimes kills, predators all the time. ;) |
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Jun 17 2006, 11:20 PM
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#41
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
thats why good predators are sneaky, very sneaky...
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Jun 18 2006, 12:31 AM
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#42
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Especially the ones who can become invisible and kill you with a laser blaster.
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Jun 18 2006, 04:37 AM
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#43
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Dictionaries are descriptive, not prescriptive. As such, they may be wrong. ~J |
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Jun 18 2006, 10:41 AM
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#44
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Horror Group: Members Posts: 5,322 Joined: 15-June 05 From: BumFuck, New Jersey Member No.: 7,445 |
Either way, Kage is assuming that I failed my perception check to notice a guy coming at me with a knife or a gun.
That's a big assumption. Not many of these guys are all that sneaky and a bag of potato chips. He's ten paces from me, I whip out my gun. If he makes ANY sudden moves towards me, I'm not going to hesitate. Now of course, I'm not going to be fucking stupid if he DOES sneak up on me. Of course I'm going to give him my fucking wallet, I'm not suicidal. |
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Jun 18 2006, 11:42 AM
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#45
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
EDIT: I THINK I'VE SAID EVERYTHING NECESSARY TO EXPLAIN MY POINT OF VIEW, SO I'M DONE WITH THIS TOPIC NOW. IF PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING, THEN I'M CONENT WITH THAT.
This is essentially what I'm talking about. Fear that turns a situation much worse.
*Urgh* Living in this mindset puts you in danger and others in danger, I think.
If someone already has a gun on you, then trying to draw yours is almost certainly a bad idea. Which brings us back to my point - guns (and to a lesser extent knives) favour the aggressor. If you're getting an advantage from them, then you're the one who's threatening people. Fear breeds violence which is one of the reasons I choose not to carry a weapon. Most people just want respect and knives are usually about posturing. If there's trouble then I'll try and defuse the situation. I'm far more skilled with my mouth than I am with a gun. Wait a minute. Let me find a better way of putting that... :oops: |
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Jun 18 2006, 01:45 PM
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#46
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
We'll be kind and just assume that you are one of the wierdos that went in for the oral gun cyberware, and are now packing heavy ordinance where you soft pallate used to be.
Don't worry, I can talk my way out of this one. <opens mouth> <BLAM!> See? worked like a charm. :cyber: |
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Jun 18 2006, 02:12 PM
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#47
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,213 Joined: 10-March 02 From: Back from the abyss. Member No.: 2,316 |
I have never been mistaken as smart, but how can a dictionary be wrong? Its job is to give definitions on words. Usually the most accepted meaning of that word. I mean if I define the word Door as a device you can drive around and convince several people thats true it still doesnt mean the word door is now a term for the word car or automobile. |
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Jun 18 2006, 02:48 PM
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#48
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Ontario, Canada Member No.: 7,086 |
Yes, they can be wrong. However, barring minor mistakes (typo on a homonym, for instance), the error is more probably in completeness rather than correctness. They're more likely to not have every meaning of a word, then to have a definition that does not apply to that word listed for it. |
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Jun 18 2006, 04:01 PM
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#49
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
You could say a dictionary is "incorrect" when it only gives a definition/definitions that account(s) for a minority of the usage of that word. Dictionary definitions are also often technically wrong (see: clip vs. magazine) even when correct in that they describe common usage, in which case it isn't the dictionaries we should be mad at but the people who use the terms incorrectly. (And this seems to have been Kagetenshi's point in the first place.)
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Jun 18 2006, 04:54 PM
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#50
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
but then language changes over time. just take a look at the word gay...
who is to say what the corret use of a word is? |
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Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 14th January 2026 - 10:02 AM |
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