 Contact Lens |
  |
 Jun 19 2006, 09:04 PM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Target  Group: Members Posts: 97 Joined: 30-January 06 Member No.: 8,213  |
Does someone know if you can record images with image linked lens? Like taking pictures of Mr. Johnson.
|
 |
 
|
|
Jun 19 2006, 09:14 PM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 244 Joined: 8-June 06 Member No.: 8,681 |
I would assume 'no'. This is without having the opportunity to go look it up to make certain, but my understanding was that the AR-linked contacts were purely an output device. They're a monitor, not a camera. At best, they might have some capacity to track where you're looking at any given moment.
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 19 2006, 09:23 PM
Post
#3
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 137 Joined: 8-June 06 From: Present day, Detroit Member No.: 8,683 |
in wireless land you should probably be able to record what you see onto your commlink (assuming the image link is subscribed or whatever)
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 19 2006, 09:42 PM
Post
#4
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 244 Joined: 8-June 06 Member No.: 8,681 |
If you have a recording device, you can definitely use the commlink for storage. In fact, the commlink itself INCLUDES a video camera, if I recall the description correctly. Without going and reading the description, though, I don't think the contacts themselves act as a camera. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jun 19 2006, 10:25 PM
Post
#5
|
|||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 137 Joined: 8-June 06 From: Present day, Detroit Member No.: 8,683 |
ok i see what you mean. in the description it says input but doesnt mention output. it looks like you would need a "eye recording unit" or something similar. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jun 19 2006, 10:32 PM
Post
#6
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 244 Joined: 8-June 06 Member No.: 8,681 |
If there's not already one on the gear list, then a micro-video device ought to be a readily-available toy. Say, a tiny video camera disguised as a lapel pin or a button on your coat...it's part of your PAN, and uses your commlink for storage. In fact, you could easily use your AR contact lenses to keep an eye on what the camera is seeing...handy if it's pointing BEHIND you. The only virtue of the thing, though, is being covert. If you don't mind being obvious, you just pull out your commlink and use the camera that's built into THAT, and you get better resolution and better control over your shot.
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 19 2006, 10:40 PM
Post
#7
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 8 Joined: 14-June 06 Member No.: 8,710 |
You could always have a sim-rig...then you'll never have to worry about recording devices. A bit obtrusive if it's external and you use trodes or something maybe, but if you're a implant junkie, it can all be internal and hidden.
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 19 2006, 11:37 PM
Post
#8
|
|||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 80 Joined: 9-January 06 Member No.: 8,143 |
kind of hijacking the thread here, but on that note... is there anything keeping a runner from having a 360° field of vision at all times? (i remember an "eye in the back of your head" cyberware thingy from sr3, but it included penalties for distraction when it was on...) |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jun 20 2006, 01:26 AM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,266 Joined: 3-June 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,638 |
I think having 360 vision would be very dissorienting. I'd certainly allow players to come up with some kind of ware, but there would be a penalty involved. An alternative might be to have some kind of ultrasound rig and project a little map in your AR showing nearby objects. Picture something like the motion detector in Aliens.
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 20 2006, 01:30 AM
Post
#10
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 244 Joined: 8-June 06 Member No.: 8,681 |
Well, if you were using AR to do it, you wouldn't really have 360 vision. You'd have your normal field of vision, with some 'picture in picture' boxes that act like a rear-view mirror.
Personally, I'm not disoriented by the mirrors in my car, so I don't see much of a problem. I'd give some big penalties for ATTACKING using such a view (firing over your shoulder, say), but I don't see an issue with them using it for situational awareness. |
|
|
|
|
Jun 20 2006, 01:39 AM
Post
#11
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,266 Joined: 3-June 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,638 |
I was envisioning some kind of fishbowl lens view.
Mirrors would be far easier to work with, true. You may have played Quake back in the day, when it was common practice to open the console and adjust your field of view to 270 degrees. It looked pretty weird, and I could never get the hang of it admittedly, but having the whole world looking like that would do my head in. |
|
|
|
|
Jun 20 2006, 02:06 AM
Post
#12
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 244 Joined: 8-June 06 Member No.: 8,681 |
Heh. I think the fishbowl effect would require an implant. The best you could do with AR goggles or contacts would be partial-transparency inserts within your normal field of view. AR adds to what you're seeing; it doesn't replace it all. Hmm. Though you COULD do that with a BIG set of goggles, that either used complex optics or put a blackout-LCD over your eyes and piped images to it from a collection of cameras. Actually CHANGING your basic field of view would require some mucking about with the optic nerve or something, and the input would still have to come from somewhere. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jun 20 2006, 02:17 AM
Post
#13
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 244 Joined: 8-June 06 Member No.: 8,681 |
Oh, another thought.
It might not bother you as much as you think. There's a classic experiment (here's the article) in which a researcher spent some time wearing glasses that turned his vision upside down. He found that the brain adapted remarkably quickly and turned everything upright again (though at least in the time that he spent, it never felt totally normal). |
|
|
|
|
Jun 20 2006, 02:41 AM
Post
#14
|
|||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 511 Joined: 24-March 05 From: On a ledge between Heaven and Hell Member No.: 7,226 |
I have a Rigger who uses those little bug drones. He worked on there signal so that he could reduce or increase their signal strength on command. He cranks to output signal down to something that will not carry much past his person and watches the drone camera output on AR. Do not see why it couldn't be done with just a camera, com link, and image link. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jun 20 2006, 10:51 AM
Post
#15
|
|||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 68 Joined: 19-April 06 From: Rio Rancho, NM Member No.: 8,484 |
They've already kinda got that. Get an RFID sensor tag with a motion sensor as it's hardware, and have it output to your commlink (or, better yet, stick a skinlink on it and put it in your hand or something). Yes, you too can have a Soliton Radar for the low, low price of 100 nuyen! |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jun 20 2006, 10:56 AM
Post
#16
|
|
|
Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
Buy a hat, stick a bunch of cyber eyes on the hat, facing in every direction. Add as many sensor bits as you want. Map the FOV of your hat to your FOV. Wear your hat a lot so you get used effects of such a FOV. Practice your ripple blinks.
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 21 2006, 09:49 AM
Post
#17
|
|||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 24 Joined: 26-May 06 Member No.: 8,606 |
Any AR "display" device is also a camera. Anyway that's how real life augmented reality prototypes work. 1/ take picture 2/ figure out picture objects 3/ get database records concerning said objects 4/ overlay relevant data on picture's objects 5/ display augmented picture to user So the answer is yes, any AR display device is a camera, and anyone can easily take pictures or record video from their point of view. Side note: On this topic the game is probably very accurate. Today, cameras are everywhere, in every cell phone. Anybody can record pictures or video. Shadowrun's AR lenses are the next logical step : same functionality, but easier to use. IBM research right now has a team working on an ever-recording camera. No need to push the button, the thing is supposed to be always "on", and have enough storage for weeks of video. User just has to choose interesting segments to save to their album. By SR4's timeline, such devices should definitely be mainstream, and that's what AR and unlimited storage seem to suggest. Make sure your players understand what the AR revolution implies before they engage in any criminal activity. SR4 is much more dangerous than SR3, and a datatrail is really something to care about. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jun 21 2006, 10:13 AM
Post
#18
|
|||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 24 Joined: 26-May 06 Member No.: 8,606 |
That's just how most people use AR every day. Adding translucent computer constructs to a real image. Nothing however, except for hardware limitations of output device, prevents an AR user to have his comlink display solid CGI, totally replacing normal vision. I expect SR4's fashion industry to be full of AR "photoshop filters" - see world as a black and white Bogart movie, see world as a flashy pink Barbie place. I expect SR4's porn industry to sell such things, too. :P When technology is available and there's a market for such things... Why would any vendor sell display devices that can't provide these kind of experiences? |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jun 21 2006, 01:22 PM
Post
#19
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 244 Joined: 8-June 06 Member No.: 8,681 |
Contemporary AR setups INCLUDE a camera, yes. But: * That's because they're identifying objects via visual recognition. SR AR recognizes most objects in the environment via RF communication, which is quite a bit more reliable. Video analysis is still useful, of course. * Even if the AR /system/ includes a camera, that doesn't mean it's built into the contacts. Your PAN is a little network of a variety of devices, each providing their own capabilities. Display is a separate function from perception. They needn't be included in the same device. Now that I've actually got my book handy, I see that there are separate entries for Vision Enhancers and Sensor Packages. If you want a pair of glasses that provide thermographic vision, an image link, AND act as a camera, just add the cost of the micro-camera onto the cost of the glasses, and you're all set. There's no reason they COULDN'T be built into the same device. It's just not required. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jun 21 2006, 01:26 PM
Post
#20
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 244 Joined: 8-June 06 Member No.: 8,681 |
That's true, of course. In fact, I went on to say so :) I'm just having trouble imagining doing it via contacts. And doing it via glasses would be disorienting, because you'd see bits of your regular field of view around the outside. Goggles, though, sure. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jun 21 2006, 02:04 PM
Post
#21
|
|||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 24 Joined: 26-May 06 Member No.: 8,606 |
Oh you're very right about getting input streams other than pure image analysis. RF broadcasts, Matrix data feeds, etc. But in the end, a composite picture has to be constructed for the user, and that picture has to make sense. It means that overlayed CGI must be put on the right place, relatively to the user's point of view. And that just implies getting processable video input from a POV as near as possible from the user's eyes. The logical conclusion is that any AR pair of glasses, goggles or contact lenses has at least basic webcam functionality. Unless of course overlayed CGI are displayed at fixed locations, like icons on a desktop computer. Then no need to track the user's point of view. But then it's just a head up display, not an augmented reality display. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jun 21 2006, 02:11 PM
Post
#22
|
|||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 24 Joined: 26-May 06 Member No.: 8,606 |
Oh, ok then. Maybe I'd rule this as the camera option being a good camera, instead of the crappy basic webcam gadgetry required for AR point of view tracking. But that's just me, I can't figure out how to do proper AR without video processing. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jun 21 2006, 02:17 PM
Post
#23
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,266 Joined: 3-June 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,638 |
s'funny... I'd never thought of the neccessity of image tracking for AR, but thinking about it, how else does the imaging device know where to put the crosshairs for your smartgun?
Best reason I've seen for disallowing contact lenses as vision enhancers. After all, where do you put the tech? |
|
|
|
|
Jun 21 2006, 03:04 PM
Post
#24
|
|||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 24 Joined: 26-May 06 Member No.: 8,606 |
Easy enough. Today's megapixel CCD chips are smaller than a contact lens. It's simple enough to imagine such sensors on the iris part of the contact lens, even more considering the technological advances of the SR4 timeline. An AR lens doesn't have to have computing power itself, as it's only useful as part of an AR system requiring a commlink. It's just a wireless networked video sensor, video display package. Easily fits into a contact lens, given SR4's technological advances. The sensor's resolution alone should be able to enhance regular vision. If it's not enough, software can tap the commlink's processing power for image enhancement (like the ClearSight program does). Anyway, the tech is here, no doubt about it. The only trouble is to gracefully handle this in a gaming session. ;) |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jun 21 2006, 03:11 PM
Post
#25
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,266 Joined: 3-June 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,638 |
grrr.. Damn techies!
I often have this problem GMing SR. I have various players employed in various technical roles and they all know more about the capabilities of tech than me! But then I pwn them when it comes to biotech knowledge. Go Team Biology! |
|
|
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 27th April 2024 - 01:28 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.