 Augmented/unaugmented Attributes, How do they affect skill costs? |
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 Jun 23 2006, 03:27 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 101 Joined: 27-October 02 From: Chicago Containment Zone Member No.: 3,504  |
Okay, I have a PC in my game who's sporting a ton of Bioware and Cyberware off of character creation (because I'm a nice GM and I'll allow some cultured drek).
Now, as the PBP is going rather slow, I wanted to double-check everyone's numbers using the NSCRG, and I found out that this one character was 12 BP over what they were allowed to start with (which suprised me. The character's packed to the gills with guns, but other than that, they've got nothing to fall back on, although there were a lot of knowledge skills). I do some calculations, and discover that they had calculated those Knowledge and Language Skills using their Augmented Score for INT. Now, SR3 makes no differentiation as far as I can tell regarding the skill point availabilites coming from Augmented versus Unaugmented Attributes. I am personally going to play it as Unaugmented due to skill costs coming before gear in the selection phase, but then I got thinking... how do you determine what the cost for a new skill is going to be? Let's say they've got a BOD of 4(5), and want to raise their Athletics skill one level from 4 to 5. Would it cost the regular amount, or would it be raised a level since it's going above their Unaugmented? |
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Jun 23 2006, 03:47 AM
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#2
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Some augmentations count as unaugmented for all purposes in SR3. These include most Bioware (except Pheremones) and the Improved Attribute adept power. These are always factored in.
Sor cyberware and other augmentations that count as augmented there are good aruguements both ways. I think it may depend on the skill. Certainly, dermal armor won't help you run faster. It makes sense that unaugmented Body is used for body-based skills. However, other augmentations aren't clear-cut. Muscle enhancement should make STR and QUI related skills easier. However, as a general rule, I'd say that calculations should be made without considering cyberware. |
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Jun 23 2006, 03:53 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 101 Joined: 27-October 02 From: Chicago Containment Zone Member No.: 3,504 |
Wait, so if someone was to have a Cerebral Booster, would they gain an additional 3 language points and 10 knowledge skill points? It just seems rather cheap to me to suddenly gain more skills just because you have the Nuyen. |
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Jun 23 2006, 04:41 AM
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#4
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
How is it any more cheap than reflex recorders? They aren't just spending they're spending bioindex, too. If they're magicians they're spending magic points, as well.
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Jun 23 2006, 05:31 AM
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#5
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
Knowledge/language skill points depend on natural intelligence without ware.
Counting the cerebral booster was a common houserule though. |
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Jun 23 2006, 06:21 AM
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#6
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Target Group: Members Posts: 56 Joined: 17-June 04 Member No.: 6,409 |
Since bioware is counted as natural, I count it as the Attribute level for increasing attributes and skills. Unless the bioware states it does not effect thes (I think Tailored Pheromones is one.)
On the mnemonic enhancer and knowledge and language skill ratings, it adds a die, it does not raise the skill. |
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Jun 23 2006, 01:43 PM
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#7
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Actually canon SR3 does not differentiate between augmented and unaugmented Intelligence for the purposes of Knowledge and Langauge skill points. The actual rules quote would be:
Note there is no mention about unaugmented or natural Intelligence.
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Jun 23 2006, 01:48 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 101 Joined: 27-October 02 From: Chicago Containment Zone Member No.: 3,504 |
I read that in the SR3, but I had assumed it had that line due to its being published before the M&M. Also, it seemed as if they had the character creation process go in a certain order, Race then Attributes then Skills then Gear, with gear being the final icing on the cake. |
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Jun 23 2006, 02:20 PM
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#9
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
Yes, thats correct. By canon, any ware comes after buying skills, and bioware was no issue when SR3 was written.
Calculating skill point costs based on bioware-augmented attributes does improve the power of mundance characters. We allowed that by houserule, but its not canon. |
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Jun 24 2006, 12:45 PM
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#10
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
True. But there is nothing in the rules that say you must spend all your Attribute points or Skill points before going on to Resources or that you cannot go back and spend "extra" skill points. In fact, following the chargen flow strictly the Adept sample character would be impossible to create. Other then the Magical Abilities section, adepts and adept powers are not mentioned thereafter in chargen. Does that mean that they have to buy their powers BEFORE they assign Attributes points or Skills points? If you follow the chargen flow strictly then Magical PCs can be a lot more potent than as presented in the book. |
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Jun 24 2006, 01:11 PM
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#11
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Pheremones aren't counted because they don't increase Charisma. They give bonus dice to Charisma and Social Skill tests, which is something entirely different. ~J |
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