My Assistant
Site Message
(Message will auto close in 2 seconds)
  |
 Rant - do researches!, Inspired by the Saint John Baptist |
 Jun 25 2006, 03:22 PM
Post
#26
|
|||
|
Target  Group: Members Posts: 49 Joined: 18-June 06 Member No.: 8,734  |
I'm sorry, but what is BBB? |
||
 |
 
|
||
|
Jun 25 2006, 03:30 PM
Post
#27
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 49 Joined: 18-June 06 Member No.: 8,734 |
I've always looked at the background as requiring a certain level of disbelief and went with it, especially as it relates to the late 1980s and early 1990s. An independent Quebec was a very real possibility and if they went that way, why would they still use the dollar and not want closer ties with their French cultured brethren? A west overrun by indians? Not likely, but the Seattle Sourcebook does mention a lot of Anglo sympithizers who fought with the indians. A South Florida that breaks away from the rest of the state to become a part of the Caribbean League? I can see that happeneing today.
If it bothers you, then change the setting for your players. If the canon progress bothers you, then ignore it. It's all make believe. Don't get hung up on whether this set of make believe is somehow more or less correct than that set of make believe. And if it bothers you to the point that you can't/won't suspend disbelief, play something else. I quit buying BattleTech stuff simply because I disliked where the game universe was going and wanted no part of it. I don't like the current sourcebook format, so I won't buy them. |
|
|
|
|
Jun 25 2006, 03:35 PM
Post
#28
|
|||||
|
Ain Soph Aur Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,477 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Montreal, Canada Member No.: 600 |
BBB = Big Black Book, a.ka. the main rule book. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jun 25 2006, 03:40 PM
Post
#29
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 49 Joined: 18-June 06 Member No.: 8,734 |
Ahhh, much obliged.
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 25 2006, 03:40 PM
Post
#30
|
|||
|
Ain Soph Aur Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,477 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Montreal, Canada Member No.: 600 |
a) Realism is the most abused word in role playing games b) the current state is BELIEVABLE, which is what counts c) don't insult the freelancers by saying they don't do research just because you can't look past your belly button d) as I explained, mild stereotyping is essential when writing up a location As was suggested, if YOU need to change things to suit yourself and your campaign, go ahead. Do NOT accuse the writers of being lazy researchers. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jun 25 2006, 03:41 PM
Post
#31
|
|||
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,618 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Montevideo, Uruguay. Member No.: 3,992 |
No kidding. Honestly, South Korea invading the North? What the hell? I can't tell you just how many friends laughed at that one. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jun 25 2006, 03:45 PM
Post
#32
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 49 Joined: 18-June 06 Member No.: 8,734 |
There might be some reason behind it. The South learns of a plan by the North to invade and preemtively strikes. OR the North has destabilized to the point that the warrinf factions threaten to spill over into the South and the South needs to end the conflict to stabilize the entire peninnsula. Or maybe the current ruling regime in Seoul, just decides enough is enough and wants to end the conflict once and for all.
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 25 2006, 03:48 PM
Post
#33
|
|||||
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,213 Joined: 10-March 02 From: Back from the abyss. Member No.: 2,316 |
It mean Big Black Book. I sort of acronym thats been used in my game shops and for a while here. Thanks for the wonderful dissertation SL. While not an expert in oil politics I knew some of that, but I always look forward to hearing more about all subjects. I guess because I have only read the SOE book once almost a year ago I dont remember much in it. I forgot about the coal reserves here in the states, quite silly of me really seeing that Im not far from many of those west virgian coal mines. Which again leaves me at a lost as to why S-K is the largest petroleum producer out there. I can try to rationalize it, by continuing to say S-K is also the largets heavy Industry corp in the game also. Which would allow them to get at hard to reach oil reserves, escpecially with deep ocean drilling. Theres still the NAN lands, which Ill have to re-read. You also have Russia I suppose, is there anythign in SOA? I havent read much of that yet either. But then again you have the pretty easy reasoning behind it. S-K is suppose to be big and bad, oil to most people is the key to the economy, S-K controls the oil. Its all about flavor, right or wrong, like all the arguements so far about Quebec. The finer points dont much matter to the common player its only certin spots that stick out to individuals as wrong. I couldnt tell you the Quebec chapter is wrong, I dont live in Quebec. I couldnt tell you that S-K being the largest oil company in the SR world is wrong, because well, I never gave it anythough. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jun 25 2006, 05:49 PM
Post
#34
|
|||||
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,898 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
You misspelled "1986".
If the writer really didn't have fun with that, they should be fired. Sacked, never used again. Holland has had, aside from Denmark and the Saar region, some of the most awesome stuff happen to it. I wish half of my country would sink and the other half join France. To not enjoy that is not merely criminal, it borders on inhuman. Really, this is why I think writers should, by and large, be banned from writing about any area they have significant connections to (whether resident, émigré, or ancestry). It seems like there is way too much tendency for people to want bad things to not happen to their locations of choice (just look at all the bitching over California and Texas!). ~J, partly conscious |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jun 25 2006, 05:53 PM
Post
#35
|
|
|
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
hmm, 1986, oops...
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 25 2006, 05:55 PM
Post
#36
|
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,898 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
It's the first part of the "modern timeline" I can find that diverges. Specifically, Warren Burger doesn't resign.
~J |
|
|
|
|
Jun 25 2006, 06:05 PM
Post
#37
|
|
|
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
ah, ok. i was just going by the general memory of how the "how it came to pass" is written and some old threads. still, we are allready 20 years past the point of division (or whatever).
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 25 2006, 06:07 PM
Post
#38
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 49 Joined: 18-June 06 Member No.: 8,734 |
I wouldn't say a writer should be forbidden from writing about an area/people/country that is dear to him, but if he isn't having fun writing about how his area/people/country has had bad things happen to it and how it has changed (often for the worse), then I think the writer needs replaced.
I'm from Florida. I've written (for myself, mostly) about how bad South Florida has become in the Sixth World. What is bad now has gotten even worse and I've had a blast doing it. Neighborhoods I know like the back of my hand are unrecognizable in 3050 in my mind. Landmarks I love with all my heart have been sold off to some Megacorps like Ares and are gone or changed. The house where I grew up is now in the middle of a racial/religious/national warzone between the Haitians and the Cubans and the NeoCommunists. I've enjoyed every minute of tearing up my home. If a writer isn't having fun, then he needs to stand aside and let someone who will have fun do the job. If FanPro and WizKids know there's a problem and aren't putting a stop to it, then shame on them. Otherwise, the writer should have the decency to tell Rob Boyle that he isn't having fun and either ask for another assignment or quit writing for Shadowrun altogether. EDIT: I can't spell...or use grammar. |
|
|
|
|
Jun 25 2006, 07:55 PM
Post
#39
|
|||
|
Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Hitler's wife really was an Immortal Elf? |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jun 25 2006, 08:00 PM
Post
#40
|
|
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,898 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
That's why I specified "modern timeline"—IEs masquerading as famous people and the whole of Earthdawn don't count, IMO.
~J |
|
|
|
|
Jun 25 2006, 08:14 PM
Post
#41
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 49 Joined: 18-June 06 Member No.: 8,734 |
Agreed. If the Immortal Elves just assumed one identidy after another, but was never anyone important and only pulled the strings as an advisor to the throne would be one thing; being important figures like Queen Elizabeth or Eva Braun is something a little more hard to swallow.
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 25 2006, 08:17 PM
Post
#42
|
|||
|
Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
Urk! That's a creative example isn't it? Please tell me no-one ever made that suggestion in anything published! |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jun 25 2006, 08:42 PM
Post
#43
|
|||
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,898 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
More importantly, though, they don't change anything externally. It'd be important if, for instance, SR canon had Ms. Braun personally obliterating the Russian forces in Stalingrad, but if all it is is that history went on the same as it did in the real world but with some different behind-the-scenes causes, there's no measurable (from the "front") difference in the world. Warren Burger not retiring, however, is measurable and visible. ~J |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jun 25 2006, 09:25 PM
Post
#44
|
|||||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 33 Joined: 23-May 06 From: California Free State Member No.: 8,597 |
In Caroline Spector's Worlds Without End, Alachia, former Queen of the Blood Wood, assumed the role of Queen Elizabeth I. Doesn't say at which age she replaced the actual Elizabeth Tudor. On page 64 of the same book, Alachia shows up again, in early World War II Germany. A newsreel shows her in a car in the rear of a parade with a blond Nazi man with his arm around her waist. Adolf Hitler is in a different part of the parade, but because they're within miles of each other, many people make the assumption that Alachia must have posed as Eva Braun. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jun 25 2006, 11:47 PM
Post
#45
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 7-February 03 Member No.: 4,025 |
Ubbergeek, I think you have every right to say you're pissed at the way your part of the country is portrayed, but you may be jumping to conclusions by attributing it to shoddy research. You may be better off questioning if the writers were biased in how they chose to portray things in the future.
Having said that... my brother relocated to Montreal a couple of years ago. He and his sig-other (a wonderful Parisienne) both agree that there is still a lot of anglophone bashing by the seperatists, a significantly large faction. I've seen a lot of stats that support the notion that Quebec is less tolerant of "different" people than most of the nation. Although I admit my part of the country comes a close second. (Hey, what's that common Quebec term for first-nations aboriginals translate into? "Savages?" Thought so.) I'm not trying to start a fight, just pointing out that the ideas presented in the books come from somewhere. They weren't made up whole-cloth by the writers. Perhaps it would be more productive for us all if you could tell us what your vision of PQ in the sixth world would be. And try to give us more than "realistic." We're talking about a fantasy world, after-all. I'll point this thread out to one of my players, a born-and-bred Quebecois. Get some inside info. |
|
|
|
|
Jun 25 2006, 11:53 PM
Post
#46
|
|||
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Did this happen in threads that are still available here or somewhere else? As a Texan I'm curious what my fellows found trouble with, and how they expressed it. Can you make a drinking game out of counting the y'alls? |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jun 26 2006, 12:11 AM
Post
#47
|
|||
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 16,898 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
One discussion. Another. That one started in another thread, but I remember its lineage being difficult to trace even when it was new. I remember more, but the search feature is starting to give me errors instead of results, so I can't help right now. ~J |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jun 26 2006, 01:21 AM
Post
#48
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 168 Joined: 26-June 06 From: USA, California Member No.: 8,778 |
The thing is this man, yeah the SR world is rather stereotypical and takes a whole lot of serious liberties. Why is this? Because it's a lot more fun to play in a messed up, chaotic and utterly different world. If you look too closely at any of the nations and social/political events in SR's lore you could probably find plenty of holes, especially if it deals with something near you. But that's not really the important part. SR is not meant to be a commentary on the way things are or even on the way they might become. It's meant to be an interesting, enjoyable game setting, and it does that wonderfully.
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 26 2006, 04:52 PM
Post
#49
|
|||
|
Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...I hear this one. Living in Portland I thought back in the SR1-SR2 days I thought it would be fun to do a set a campaign here. With the few notes on the TT in the core book there seemed to be some latitude to filling in the details. When the TT sourcebook appeared a few into the campaign, I immediately went out and bought it. To my disappointment I realised I had to basically gut the entire setting I had written up to try to make it fit the "newly published" canon. My version of Portland was way different than the designers'. The city was a thriving gateway port, there was no wall, and people generally got along together a little better (and there is no subway - it's an above ground light rail system). |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jun 26 2006, 05:13 PM
Post
#50
|
|
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,026 Joined: 23-November 05 From: Seattle (Really!) Member No.: 7,996 |
Hey I live in Seattle and have for 30 years! There are plenty of "mistakes" in the Canon material but I'm able to play around them. Occasionally we'll add something (like Seahawks Stadium or Safeco Field) or delete something (like the Kingdome or the Puyallup lavafields) but we try to avoid changing the published setting too much. And of course it could be worse, it's not like they had Tonga, Djibouti, and San Marino form an alliance and conquer the world or anything.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 12th April 2022 - 07:04 PM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.