Automatic Fire House Rule Options

[Phobos]

As the rules for Automatic Fire in SR4 are broken (they assume ALL shots to hit or miss, which results in a huge dice pool modifier), I thought I'd give you my adaptation of them :

Rule Change :

• Recoil is NEVER applied as a dice pool modifier.
• Instead, scoring at least 1 net hit, a number of rounds equal to the amount of Recoil Compensation not eaten up by previous shots that IP (to a maximum of bullets fired) is assumed to have hit. Any additional net hits stage up the number of rounds that hit by 3 (again, up the maximum total of bullets fired), any additional net hits stage up damage normally.
• Wide Bursts follow the same philosophy - Roll to-hit as if unopposed, then figure damage as above, but don't add weapon deamage but use this total to subtract from the target's Reaction (+ Dodge) roll to avoid getting hit, and the number of hits acts as the Threshold for the attempt. On the other hand, Damage is always flat weapon (+ ammo) damage.

Examples :

• Joe Average (AGI 3, Firearms 1) picks up an Assault Rifle (6P, Recoil Reduction 3) and opens fire on the terrorists (Shadowrunners). He rolls 2 hits, and the 'Runner didn't estimate Joe as a threat so gets no opportunity to dodge.
  Damage is 6 + 3 (RC) + 3 (2nd net hit) = 12P. Outch. The Runner shouldn't have underestimated Joe, and he would have dodged easily.
  
• Joe's older brother Jim was with the USMC and doesn't like it any when his little brother is gunned down in retaliation by the terrorists, so he picks up the gun and goes for revenge. He has AGI 4, Automatic (Assault Rifles) 4(+2). He opens up on two of the 'Runners with long bursts.
  He rolls 10 dice at the first target, scoring 4 hits. This time, nobody underestimates him, but the 'Runner only scores 2 hits on his Reaction Test ... too bad. Damage is 6P + 3 (RC) + 2 (remaining rounds of the burst) = 11P.
  Jim then rolls 8 dice at the second goon (10, -2 for additional target) and scores 2 hits. Too bad for the 'Runner that he's out of luck and only scores 1 hit on the Reaction Test, so he's hit. Damage is a flat 6P.
  
• Now say that Jim uses Wide Bursts on the terrorists :
  Scoring 4 hits on the first burst, his target's pool to avoid being hit would have been reduced by 8, at a Damage of flat 6P, and the goon would have needed 4 or more hits to dodge completly.
  The second burst would only have resulted in a reduction of 6 with the goon needing 2 or more hits to avoid again 6P.
  
• Jack Gunbunnie (20 Dice for his chosen Automatic) wants out of there and tries to gun down poor Jim, too. He rolls 20 dice for 8 hits, giving Jim no chance to dodge - even on full defense he only scores 3 hits. He takes 6P + 3 (RC) + 6 (2nd and 3rd hit -> remaining bullets) + 2 (remaining net hits) = 17P. Jack then gets the hell out.

RAW Comparison :

• Joe picking up the gun only alerts the terrorists, as he has a dice pool of excactly zero (well, -2) : 4 - 6 (RC). Poor Joe.
• Jim isn't much better of. Firing at the first Runner, he only rolls 8 dice this time for the first target, scoring only 2 hits ... a miss. (Target scored 2 hits, remember ?).
  Now assume he got 3 hits, then the 'Runner would take 6P (gun) +5 (long burst) +1 (net hits) for 12P - a steep jump.
  He's worse of at the second shot, he only rolls 2 dice, scoring 1 hit. No hit this time (remember ?, 1 hit for the Runner on his Dodge Test).
  Screw the USMC, they don't hit anything :D
• Jack fires only 14 dice (6 uncompensated recoil) for 5 hits, that's 2 net hits still. Damage is 17P.

Yes, these rules make for automatic weapons being deadly indeed, not the laughing stock they are in RAW (except in the hands of a maxed-out-Gunbunnie, of course)

Note : too bad that the Dev-guys screwed this up, they should have made more use of Thresholds instead of Dice Pool Modifiers, if they had, the system would have only about half the flaws it has now ... which would still be too many, but better :D

Edits : Wide Bursts, RAW Comparison, Jack Gunbunnie, Layout.

[James McMurray]

The system doesn't assume all bullets hit, it assumes that more bullets means a better chance of dealing more damage. If it assumed all bullets hit damage would be multiplicative rather than additive.

In other words, when two bullets hit from seperate pistol shots oyu deal the pistol's damage twice. If 3 bullets were all hits you'd deal the damage 9 times rather than just adding two to the DV. If 10 bullets hit you'd deal damage 10 times rather than just adding 9 to the DV.

[Phobos]

[James McMurray]

[Phobos]

[Shrike30]

[James McMurray]

[Phobos]

[Lagomorph]

So using your example, a full auto burst from a super gun bunny could do a maximum of 6(gun)+3(rc)+10(bullets) or 19 damage correct?

[Phobos]

nope, only 6(gun)+9(aditional bullets) = 15 damage, plus one for every net hit more than 3 (1st for hitting in the first place and the bullets covered by RC, and 3rd hit for the remaining bullets in the salvo).

RAW max would be 6(gun)+9(aditional bullets) = 15, plus one for every net hit.

Let's calculate :

Jack Gunbunnie, 20 dice.
Assault Rifle /w 3 RC

RAW : 14 Dice, average of ~5 hits -> Damage 20P - opponents hits.
MR : 20 Dice, average of ~7 hits -> Damage 19P - opponents hits.

As you can see, this rule works out just fine - it doesn't make for deadlier Gunbunnies, only for deadlier Joe Average and Jakob CorpSec.

[Lagomorph]

So the troll with the gyromounted LMG will do 7p + 10(rc) + 7 hits, or 24P

I don't think it's a bad rule over all, it has some decent logic behind it. I think that it may be a little too complex though.