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> Attribute Maximums, Newb question, again...
Everial
post Aug 17 2003, 08:24 PM
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QUOTE
I don't know what ware Burnout has, but you can run pretty fast with this setup:
Human max Quickness = 10 (with exceptional attribute that's the highest you can naturally get, rite?)
Add Muscle Replacement 4 = 14
Add Adrenaline Pump-2 = 16
Hydraulic Jacks-4, Artwinkulation, Synthacardium-2, ReflexRec(Spec: Ath/Run), Athletics (Running) 6 (12) = 10 successes on average
78 meters per CT, 93.6kph, 58.2mph
A Night One can get at least 3 points higher in Quickness (right?), for 87 meters per CT, 104.4kmh, 64.9mph


Aus interprets the max given as a natural maximum, allowing that 10 to be surpassed with bio/cyberware.

Isn't 10 the maximum, period? (ie, counting enhancements)
Even if it isn't, bioware is considered a 'natural' (read: unaugmented) statistic change, so nothing should be added.

[Edit] Sorry, I messed up the quote function, but it's from Austere Emancipator (speeling) in the Attribute Breakdown thread.

This post has been edited by Everial: Aug 17 2003, 08:25 PM
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Kagetenshi
post Aug 17 2003, 08:33 PM
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Official ruling is that bioware and adept Improved Ability levels both run up against racial maximums, while you can toss as much metal into a body as you want. Austere is in violation of that ruling, but a lot of people hate it so that's not that uncommon. By canon, though, he's wrong.

~J

[edit]Zeel, you're right; I didn't look at the muscle replacement enough and just assumed it was toners. I'm a bioware junkie; it happens.
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Zeel De Mort
post Aug 17 2003, 08:33 PM
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Muscle Replacement is an augmentation, i.e. it's cyberware not bioware, so it can increase your stats above the attribute maximum. If he'd used Muscle Toner to increase his quickness then, by the book, it wouldn't do anything over the attribute maximum.
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Everial
post Aug 17 2003, 10:25 PM
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Wow... another place where rules make a very small amount of sense...
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Glyph
post Aug 17 2003, 10:46 PM
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A human with the Exceptional Attribute Edge has an Attribute Maximum of 11, not 10. Bioware cannot exceed this limit, but cyberware can. Therefore, a human could get a Quickness of 15 by combining maxed Quickness with the Exceptional Attribute Edge and Muscle Replacement: Level 4. It's probably a GM call whether an Adrenal Pump: 2 would increase the Quickness over 15. I would probably let it, since it's not actually permanently raising Quickness, only boosting it temporarily by means of concentrates pumped into the blood. It is similar to shooting up with Jazz. So that would raise Quickness to 17 for as long as the pump lasted. If you were completely reckless, you could add Jazz and Kamikaze to the mix and raise your Quickness to 20, although you would probably be likelier to have a heart attack. :D

The mix of cyber and bio is good - hydraulic jacks can actually go up to 5, although one more extra die won't make that much difference.

If I was after speed, though, I would probably get inline skates, instead, for that (x 6) running multiplier. :rollin:
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Austere Emancipa...
post Aug 18 2003, 03:17 AM
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Yeah, Adrenaline Pump working over Attribute Maximum probably is a house rule, but I thought I'd add it anyway, to make sure I would get as high as I knew I should. I don't have SRC, and couldn't remember what the Attribute Maximum is if you get Exceptional Attribute (ie. whether it is calculated normally for 7, like it apparently is, or just have 1 added to the normal Attr Max).

I was going to add some chemicals to the mix when I started calculating that, but I forgot them halfway into the example. And I typoed 4 into the Hydraulic Jacks-part, and then just did the calculations with that value. I was also contemplating on the skates, in this case cyberskates, but I thought the whole point was to make someone run faster, so I ditched them.
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Sahandrian
post Aug 18 2003, 03:21 AM
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My house rule for the bio and adept attribute increases is that they work like a racial bonus. Thus it can go above the normal max, and even raises your max, but counts for Karma costs.

But I have mages, stealth adepts, and speed sams in my group, so that doesn't come up so often...
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Zazen
post Aug 18 2003, 04:03 AM
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Yeah, I suggest either skates or kid stealth legs to increase the multiplier, and an athletics aptitude to increase your average number of successes. Then you want to throw in either a spirits movement power, or make this guy a horse shaman somehow.

I've sometimes wondered if I could make a character that'd be able to break the sound barrier on foot, but it's never been important enough for me to take the time. I'd be interested in seeing others efforts along this vein, though. :)
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Sahandrian
post Aug 18 2003, 05:33 AM
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Night One Ghoul Conjuror with Kid Stealth Legs, maybe? I don't have NSRCG any more thanks to my move to college, but let's see what I can do...

123-point...
Elf - 10
Variant - 5
Ghoul - 5
Aspected - 25
400K nuyen - 20 (correct me if I'm wrong, there... books are still packed)

Exceptional Quickness - 2
Athletics Aptitude - 4
Bad Karma - -5
Cursed Karma - -6

= 62

We'll assume the standard ghoul...

B 2 +2 = 4
Q 7 +2 = 9 (14)
S 2 +1 = 3
C 5 +1 = 6
I 4 -1 = 3
W 3 +0 = 3

+ 46 = 108

Athletics 6 - 8
Conjuring 6 - 6

+14 = 122

Kid Stealth legs will be Alpha...
Essence 3.40

Muscle Toner 4
Suprathyroid Gland (scary on a ghoul...)
Bioindex 5.40/6.40

Enough insulated armor to not incinerate himself while running...

And he runs at 14x5. Now, did an Athletics test raise Quickness for running? cause if it did, That's a possible 20x5, for 100 meters per combat turn... If I remember the Movement power properly, that can up it to 600 with a force 6 spirit.

Giving us 600 meters per combat turn. Somebody want to convert that? The conversion should be at the beginning of the Rigger chapter of the BBB...
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Matrix Monkey
post Aug 18 2003, 06:27 AM
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km/h = m/CT * 1.2
miles/h = m/CT * 0.75

Which would give Sahandrian's example a running speed of 720km/h :D

reference:
The speed of sound in dry air is given approximately by
v = 331.4 + 0.6TC (m/s)
where TC is the celsius temperature,

This would mean you'd have to break over 900 meters per turn to break through the sound barrier (assuming CT's are +- 3 seconds) :eek:
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Matrix Monkey
post Aug 18 2003, 06:29 AM
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linkage : Speed of Sound table
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