How to deal with runners who......, Oppressing creativity!! Options

[Abbandon]

Im new to the forums and stuff and i have started reading through some of the adventures that are ongoing over in the missions area and i got this crazy idea.

How does a GM handle a player who like makes their character get into fights and stuff that you didnt set up. Like at the beginning of an adventure you have a meet. Well most people just talk about how they get ready and how they get to the meet.

Well what if a player as part of there intro makes themselves get attacked by a gang or a bunch of ghouls or something? Does the GM let it happen and carry out the battle while everyone else is waiting to do the meet ? lol.

Would you just be like well it looks like so and so isnt showing, i guess you guys get to split her share or something and not even cover the battle?

What if they pick a fight with the patrons of the club where everyone is meeting or something? Like start beating the crap out of people on the dance floor or trying to kick the crap out of the bouncer for trying to take their stuff?

[Kremlin KOA]

problem player alert, probable spotlight hog

recommend torture with a Gym Form Plus

[Trax]

If they want to pick a fight, let them. They get their ass kicked, they don't make it to the meet, and do not participate in the run. Maybe they even get arrested by Lone Star for causing a disturbance and haul his unconscious ass to jail, or while knocked out they are stripped naked by the bums and wake up on a table while their organs are being removed.

[Drraagh]

[Brahm]

That might not work though, depending on their motivation. If they are doing this to get their PC into a fight, have action centre on their PC, or just get a little attention then you are giving them what they want. Even if the PC dies or is jailed they got what they wanted. If you don't want him to play in your game you can then tell him he can play a new character. But IMO that's just passive-aggressive weenieness, because if someone else's character died or was arrested would you make them sit around thumbing themselves. If you just don't care then skip the fighting crap, and rigging it so they lose crap (I mean, what if they win the fight, or avoid the law for a while, crickie the better part of the session could centre on bringing this PC down). Plus there is a whole other slough of socially disruptive things that could come of going that route.

Instead I'd tend to try figure out WTF they were doing, and go from there.

It might even be you are aiming the game in the wrong direction for the table. Inspite of what you might have been lead to believe, players are people too. There are some that take the attitude that "this is the game/scenario/story I, the GM, want and you'll damn well STFU, play it they way I want, and like it....or leave". But there are others, with alternatives that tend to lead to less dysfunctional tables.

[Drraagh]

[Brahm]

Well it is a hypothetical situation, assuming that there wasn't a specific thread in Welcome to the Shadows that got Abbandon thinking about this.

But I think you've got some pretty big assumptions in that post. Even if it is repeatedly happening it still could be a reaction to GM [repeatedly] driving the game in a direction the player isn't looking for. What direction they are looking for is however another important part of the question.

But yes, first you have to figure out WTF is up.....before you start to try beat up the player via the character (would you accept a player doing that to another player via their character? I would hope not).

[Backgammon]

By "make themselves get attacked", do you mean the character states something like "Ok, I'm on the way to the meet, riding my motorcycle, when suddenly 3 gangers start chasing me! Zomg! I defend myself and attack!"? If that's the case, you need to have a talk with the player to define what is the Player's role and what is the GM's role in role playing games. And maybe this is a sign the person would be more comfortable as a GM than a Player.

[James McMurray]

It sounds to me like he means that the player will fire on gangers, police,m or even just random bystanders, not that he tries to narrate himself into a fight scene.

There are a few possible solutions:

1) Give him the fight and make sure he's overwhelmed. This will give him the spotlight at the start of the run, but remove him from the rest of it.

2) Interweave the meet and the combat. If the combat makes him late for the meet, the rest of the group will be talking to the Johnson while he is busy fleeing or fighting gangers or the police.

3) Kick him out of the group. He's being disruptive and ruining the fun for others.

4) Talk to the guy and ask him why he does it. Try to work something out that will cover his wants without as much disruption to the game.

#4 is the best idea IMO, but doesn't always work. #3 is the most extreme, but might be necessary if nothing else can be done. If you do #1 and/or #2, be sure to move the two groups into seperate rooms if possible, as this keeps the guy from grabbing the spotlight in scenes his character doesn't even have access to.

[Telion]

I'm going to agree with james, and the rest, he's going for attention.

Typically when people do that in my campaigns I ignore that kind of behavior and make it seem relatively insignificant (psychological warfare). Though different approaches are required for different people.

Campaigns typically have to change for these kinds of players, the player usually doesn't have the concentration to do a lot of legwork and then a mission. Merc work is usually about all they know how to do so they can show off. Perhaps if your feeling risky, throw in a map to make them feel like there planning something difficult.

So what would a show off do when there's a bigger show off in the game?

[Platinum]

The guy just loves combat. The trick is to just have him outnumbered, and put him in the hospital a few times so that he misses the session.

[stevebugge]

If the guy is just an attention hog this can be managed by an organized GM, you just have to make sure you make time for the other players and put your foot down when someone tries to monopolize the session. Combat isn't the only avenue these kind of players can take either, sometimes it manifests in overly detailed conversations or descriptions, or repeated descriptions.

If you have a combat monster that is a different problem, and how to handle it may depend on your group. Some groups really like combat, if that's the case add more of it to your games. If it's just the one player who really wants combat a group meeting on gamestyle may help, or may convince the combat monster to find a more combat oriented game.

[Backgammon]

[X-Kalibur]

I'm personally a big fan of IC actions have IC consequences. If they don't take the first (or even second) OOC warning that starting random fights is bad, make them pay. If they fail to learn their lesson, I'd honestly talk to them about finding another group.

[James McMurray]

One thing you could do is gloss over the combats he tries to start. Just say "you mop the floor with the gangers, soak a couple 4 DV hits just to make sure." Then move on with the game session. You can even avoid the soak roll part if you think he's going to be a pain about it because he didn't get to roll his dodges. This lets him feel like a badass without bogging the game down.

If he wants to start looting though you'll have to do something just so he isn't getting free money. One way is to have backup show up. Remember that in SR4 a character with no magical backup nearby is screwed at times. A couple of mana bolts from force 4 or 5 spirits will ruin his day. If your group doesn't have an aversion to it, Mind Control magic can kill him dead faster then you can say "stand perfectly still while these guys shoot at you for target practice."

If you do opt to play the combats out, burst fire from multiple targets will get rid of your dodge pool incredibly fast. :)

If it ends up that he doesn't go on the run, either because of missing the meet or getting injured, and you can manage to run two settings simultaneously, you could end up with a situation where this guy has his own scenarios going on while the rest of the group does the job. He'll get to feel cool because he's soloing stuff (at least until he gets splatted). He'll also pay for it with less money (looting doesn't pay as well as working) and less karma (starting up fights earns you survival karma, but little else).

Edit: An what X-Calibur said.

[Brahm]

[Shrike30]

If the character wants to get in a fight, figure out what he's fighting with, and what the other guys are fighting with. He gets a roll, they all get their rolls (or one big roll with the teamwork benefits figured in), pass out damage accordingly, and say the fight ended when he fell down in a ditch and they left, or when he killed enough of them that they fled, dragging their friends. Voila, he gets to start the game with some wound penalties, and you've nicely glossed over an attention grab.

Figure out why the player is doing this, if it's a repeat problem.

I've played with players who used Shadowrun as their own personal anger management therapy. If that's not what the rest of the group wants to deal with, make it clear to the player that he's overusing a limited resource (the GM's time).

[Kagetenshi]

[Brahm]

[SuperFly]

[knasser]

First advice - handle this out of game. Talk to the guy, ask him not to keep branching the game in two and to let you all get on with the planned mission.

Second advice - when the player splits the team and goes off on one, stick with the majority. That's only fair and the other players will be in your corner. Interleave between groups as necessary, but definitely favour the majority.

Third advice - Don't pull punches. Be realistic in consequences.

[mfb]

the simplest solution is to just shoot the player. now, you want to be careful, because getting rid of the evidence can be tricky. one good way is to get a good blade and cut the body up into bite-sized chunks, which you can flush down the toilet. or eat, i guess. problem solved, plus snackage for your next game... it's an attractive option.

[Ryu]

If this was a one-time incident and the player actually managed to display some personality traits and abilities of his character, more power to her.

You should not even play out the encounter. Let the player describe. The only thing you should forbid is making profit from self-inflicted encounters - OOC. And you reserve the right of stepping in anytime.


If this happens all the time and you are expected to play the opposition, "Just say NO!". No hogging of game-time please.

[mfb]

yeah. i mean, i kinda sympathize with the player. i've got at least one char for whom going out and picking fights is what she does instead of eating breakfast.

[Brahm]