 What are the HAVE TO have skills and gear? |
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 Jul 3 2006, 05:55 PM
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#1
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Shooting Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,711 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,716  |
When making characters what skills and gear should you absolutely try to have?
Is there a forum specifically for character generation posts? I think i saw somebody link to it but it didnt have any posts or conversations?? |
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Jul 3 2006, 05:58 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 475 Joined: 13-March 06 From: dusty Mexican borderlands Member No.: 8,372 |
This varies by the purpose of the character. What're you trying to make?
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Jul 3 2006, 05:58 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 422 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Columbus, OH Member No.: 875 |
It depends on the character type, but I think th Athletics Skill Group is pretty much essential for an Shadowrunner.
Personally when I make characters I usually take Automatics instead of the Firearms SG, because Machine Pistols and ARs make for a good arsenal. |
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Jul 3 2006, 06:11 PM
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#4
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
My mundane, wareless character, Slim, finally picked up his first point in any firearms skill (learned on the job by picking up an assault rifle off a fallen guard, the first time he changed a magazine was.....interesting). That's after about 70 karma worth of play. I know that is a bit extreme, but I found the character entirely playable all those sessions without those skills. However it also made a lot of sense for him to get into it when he did. It likely saved the life of at least one teammate.
On the other hand I just can't see ever playing without at least a single point in Perception. It is so critical that I question whether it should have been a Skill. P.S. I'd rank Athletics in importance somewhere around the same as Firearms. |
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Jul 3 2006, 06:11 PM
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#5
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Target Group: Members Posts: 77 Joined: 30-June 06 Member No.: 8,813 |
I agree, it depends on what kind of character you're going for.
I have character concepts that range from the standard troll walking weapons platforms who's mantra is "Kill Kill Kill!", to a 17 year old female rigger who's paralyzed from the waist down, who works forward surveillence for a Doc Wagon extraction team, and who wouldn't know how to shoot an Ingram Smartgun to save her life (I'll be posting her in my dedicated Character thread soon). I always make the gear fit the character and have valid explanations and justifications for what they have and, more importantly, WHY they have it. If you put 25 BP's (125,000 nuyen) or more into starting money at character generation, gear for the typical runner is pretty much "null perspiration, chummer" at that point. Only if you're getting into the high end vehicles, cyberware/bioware, or specialty stuff does money really become a consideration. |
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Jul 3 2006, 06:19 PM
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#6
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Useful things for any runner include comms/PAN equipment, defensive weapons, reflex augmentation (in spell, ware, drug, or Edge form), body armor, some ration bars and water, a vehicle, changes of clothing, changes of ID, and some cash stashed away in the form of easily movable, easily resellable hard currency (read, gold or diamonds). Once you've got these, it all comes down to what you do, when you start talking essentials.
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Jul 3 2006, 07:01 PM
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#7
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Infiltration, dodge or a good melee skill, athletics for skills. Camosuit for armor.
Other than that you're good with whatever fits the character, and even those aren't necessary for all character concepts. They'll definitely make your life easier if you have them. |
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Jul 3 2006, 07:04 PM
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#8
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,026 Joined: 23-November 05 From: Seattle (Really!) Member No.: 7,996 |
I would add Ettiquette to that list, a character without basic social skills won't make it far. |
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Jul 3 2006, 07:10 PM
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#9
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
True dat.
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Jul 3 2006, 07:47 PM
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#10
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
I'd tend to say you'll want (in skills, equipment or character concept):
- Something offensive (magic, firearms, extremely high negotiations/etiquette) - Something defensive (dodge, living inside of a tank, etc.) - Something the group doesn't have but needs (magic, electronics, so on and so forth) - At least some amount of stealth and etiquette |
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Jul 3 2006, 08:24 PM
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#11
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
I find myself not wanting to use Dodge. Unless you have managed to get your IP above your opposition the times that it seems like a good idea are very few and far inbetween. Usually you are far better off spending your IP actually helping yourself out. Basically pretty much any offensive makes a better defense than Dodge.
Good point about Etiquette though. I'd rank that somewhere between Firearms and Perception. But it is still not as critical as Perception. Of course that does depend somewhat on how often the GM calls for it, but even just for detecting Surprises it is very hard to get by without. Whereas you can mostly insulate yourself from Etiquette requirements (though it doesn't seriously limit your character). |
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Jul 3 2006, 08:31 PM
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#12
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Dodge is great when you're trying to escape, but I mainly use it for defending in melee. Without dodge or a good melee skill you'll get owned in close and not be able to escape.
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Jul 3 2006, 08:48 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 393 Joined: 20-June 06 Member No.: 8,754 |
All the characters I make tend to have at least a rank or two in the following:
Pistol skill Athletics group Stealth group Perception skill First Aid skill I prefer to make characters well rounded with one niche - this is one of the strengths of a skill system instead of a class system like DnD. That niche is determined by the concept of the character, which never should prevent the character from taking a rank or two in those skills. For gear I always have: All of the vision and audio enhancements (either cyber or glasses/contacts depending on concept) Ares Pred IV (I just love the name :P and it's an awesome gun) 3 HE grenades 3 thermal grenades 3 flash-bangs Survival knife Trodes Tag eraser Signal scanner Fake SIN (duh) Plasteel restraints Autopicker Wire clippers Chisel and hammer Gas mask Flashlight Grapple gun Stealth rope with catalyst stick Medkit 3 stim patches Trauma patch If the character is mundane I always give them: Wired 2 Platelet factories |
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Jul 3 2006, 08:55 PM
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#14
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
Using Dodge in melee is just delaying the inevitable. Unless your side is in total control of the fight to start with, meaning you significantly outnumber the opposition you do an on the fly Dodge and let your buddy counterattack your attacker. Even when running away you usually have just as effective if not more effective actions to perform. Melee Skill is something entirely different, and is something that falls into the very important Defensive ability catagory. Even if it also happens to fall into the Offensive catagory too. |
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Jul 3 2006, 09:40 PM
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#15
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Doesn't that get kinda boring after a while? |
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Jul 3 2006, 09:55 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 834 Joined: 30-June 03 Member No.: 4,832 |
I have to agree about Perception and even Ettiquette, They're both pretty much essential, you can't walk down a street with out needing one or both of those.
Personally, I think that a datajack and a commlink are pretty much required also, and probably a fake sin. And a 10 foot pole! |
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Jul 3 2006, 09:58 PM
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#17
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Wow. I can't believe I forgot perception. That skill alone means the difference between life and death in sooo many situations.
If I have a character that sucks in melee but friends nearby, dodging can be a good idea. I agree that dodging in and of itself is usually a bad idea (unless you're well outgunned and just want some breathing room). I only use dodge in melee if the character concept doesn't lend itself to having an actual melee skill, otherwise I go with the "a good melee skill" option in the original post.
Depends on how many guns you're running away from, and what kinds of bursts they're firing at you. :) |
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Jul 3 2006, 10:11 PM
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#18
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
I suggest an even better idea is to have spent the BP on Unarmed instead of Dodge to start with. :)
If you can't just run away you better figure out an action fast to get you some some cover or concealment to put a serious dent into their dice pools, because if there are multiple people aiming at you the -2 dice your defense to per attack is going to eat through any Dodge you might have really damn fast and then you, my friend, are right humped. I recommend having a smoke grenade handy. Custom shorten the fuse if you don't have a GL to allow you to airburst it. That gives you the same as a Dodge 2, or Dodge 4 if they have normal vision. A thermal smoke can really screw up the aim of folks with Thermal vision, so if you don't Thermal vision then you might want to consider using one of those instead. As a bonus you might even obscure which way you went, plus the bonus lasts a lot longer than Dodge without expending even more actions. Also if you can Quickdraw it you've even got a simple action left on to do something else. EDIT: Also with that last guy having an extra -2 dice/-4 dice to your defenses, you are just as well off attacking if in doing so you can prevent him from attacking you, unless you a quite high (expensive) Dodge. |
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Jul 3 2006, 10:19 PM
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#19
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Target Group: Members Posts: 21 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Member No.: 8,637 |
IMO:
Athletics group Perception skill (at least 1 point) "fighting" skill (whatever floats your boat) =) |
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Jul 3 2006, 10:25 PM
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#20
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Did you miss the part where I talked about melee skill not fitting the character concept?
Right, and dodging can help you survive the trip into cover. It's only -1 die per attack IIRC. Still painful, but if you've got a decent dodge skill and decent reaction you ought to be able to make it to cover. If all you've got is a decent reaction you may find yourself dead before your turn rolls around. I'm not saying dodge is the be-all end-all of skills. Far from it. But it does have it's uses, and there are times when having dodge will give you a chance to live through something that might otherwise have killed you. How often that happens depends on the game and the team. If it doesn't hapen much in your games, ignore dodge. If it does, stock up on it.
That's a good idea, but not always applicable. And unless you want to drop that smoke at your feet and possibly screw with your teammates then you'll need to invest in throwing skill. Again, something that might not fit a character concept. |
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Jul 3 2006, 10:47 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 393 Joined: 20-June 06 Member No.: 8,754 |
I don't understand why a datajack is so must have. Are you sure you're not in the 3rd edition mindset? What can a datajack do that trodes and a commlink can't? As far as I can tell, the only reason to get a datajack is for flavor (such as an old decker before 2.0). |
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Jul 3 2006, 10:56 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 393 Joined: 20-June 06 Member No.: 8,754 |
Why would it be boring? That's just a base for other things I add. Dispite having a large list of must haves, characters can still be radically different. After all of that gear, I've only spent around 15 BP. |
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Jul 3 2006, 11:10 PM
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#23
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
If it really makes you feel better write it down on your character sheet as "Unarmed Turtling" and don't ever use it to attack. :P Seriously; basically same turds, different pile.
If it takes more than your movement to get to cover? This makes taking out that guy even more important. But once again the grenade does this without costing you the extra actions. You can spend the extra actions using covering fire for yourself, casting a spell, summoning a spirit, tossing a more room-clearing style of grenade. etc.
Ah, right you are. But for the most part it doesn't change the situation much.
I'm not saying it is without use, but I am suggesting it is dangerously close to a waste of BP. Gymnastics as an alternative to Dodge is the cinch on that. Below a level of 3 I'll even be so bold to say it IS a waste of Skill points outside of the "I'm never going to throw a punch, but I'm going to be stupid enough to leave myself in a place where someone is likely to punch me....oh, and I've got IP to burn and nothing better to do with them" concept of a character. At 3 and above you are very likely better off to put it into something that'll bail you out of, or avoid you getting into, the odd situation where Dodge might come up.
In any event this is a bugout situation, and you are probably less likely to screw with your teammates just dropping it at your feet. Beside if you have friends then why aren't you using them for cover. :) |
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Jul 4 2006, 12:19 AM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 137 Joined: 8-June 06 From: Present day, Detroit Member No.: 8,683 |
you can go on full defense before it's your turn, so yeah it can help you actually get to cover before you're dead (plus being able to use dodge + dodge in melee full defense) while you have to wait for your turn to drop that grenade. so yeah if you're more defensive minded than offensive, i dont see why its so bad. though gymnastics is definitely better for the "cost" conscious. |
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Jul 4 2006, 12:26 AM
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#25
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
I would say Etiquette, Stealth, some sort of gathering info skill.
In shadowrun, you can't always beat people up with your fists. You can't always run faster than them. You can however know what you are facing,have good friends and know how to keep a low profile. Shadowruners will never win in an escalating arms race with an A level corp, let alone one the big ten. So if you get a job you need to know everything you can. You need to know people to get the gear you need. And if things go FUBAR you need to have the ability to run and hide, cause no mater how big your guns are, they have bigger. |
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