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> In my opinion cybernetics are ass backwards!, debate
knasser
post Jul 8 2006, 09:08 PM
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QUOTE (Dawnshadow @ Jul 8 2006, 01:28 PM)
Ah.. but you see, mages need both karma and nuyen for a lot of their extras -- foci take nuyen to buy, karma to bond. And that karma can't be spent on cranking skills up to astronomical levels.

See.. if the optional training rules aren't included as an "obscenely cruel way to excessively limit the skill-wh.. err.. Street Samurai", then you wind up with metalheads that have decent stats, decent damage dealing... and skill 8-16 with their weapons.

Yes, admittedly, there's a degree of diminishing returns when that happens. But you can end up with characters that, while they might not be able to empty small rooms with spells, are capable of taking a character and removing his left arm, right eye, right hand, and nose... without spending any of that precious resource we call combat pool.

The mage? Most of that karma is tied up with spells, initiations, and the like. They certainly don't have the karma to initiate twice, learn two-three force 8 spells, crank the sorcery up to 8, and bring up the willpower for drain resistance, not without giving the Samurai the karma to take his skill 6 cyberimplant combat and go up to skill 6( 12 ) cyberimplant combat ( spur )... (Actually, doing the math, it's more likely cyberimplant combat AND assault rifles go up to 12.. but that's beside the point)


Hmmm. You're right that there are nice offsets. Sadly most of them have been removed in SR4.
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Dawnshadow
post Jul 9 2006, 05:54 PM
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SR4? Please don't re-enlighten me any further. I've spent enough time repressing all internal knowledge of that other game as I can afford to. I like my SR3. I'm keeping my SR3...
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knasser
post Jul 9 2006, 06:04 PM
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QUOTE (Dawnshadow)
SR4? Please don't re-enlighten me any further. I've spent enough time repressing all internal knowledge of that other game as I can afford to. I like my SR3. I'm keeping my SR3...


:D

Sorry - it's just that this section is labelled just 'Shadowrun.' Seeing as it appears to have become the de facto Shadowrun 3 section, shouldn't it be renamed? It makes no sense for it to have SR4 and just SR. Should be SR4, SR3 and SR (General).

It would lead to some tidier topic placing and less distress to the SR3'ers who have spent so long re-acquiring their ignorance. ;)
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Dawnshadow
post Jul 9 2006, 06:15 PM
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Depends, I think there are people in here are going very extreme on the "This is Shadowrun. Shadowrun 4 is not Shadowrun. Shadowrun, Shadowrun 2, and Shadowrun 3 are Shadowrun. Shadowrun 3 Revised may be Shadowrun when it's finished, we'll see. But Shadowrun 4 is something else.".

Not going to guess at the relative numbers. It's like AD&D vs D&D.. they aren't the same game. They aren't different editions of the same game. They're different games with similar backgrounds.
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knasser
post Jul 9 2006, 07:05 PM
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Well I think the simplest thing to do would be to set up a new Shadowrun 3 section and from thereon things specific to the SR3 ruleset get posted there. The fluff is the same between games so a shared area is needed. It's a shame if there's an interesting discussion in one area that's appropriate to both and someone misses it therefore.
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