 DNI question |
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 Jul 8 2006, 11:03 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 433 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Iraq Member No.: 1,789  |
What would be the essence cost of a generic DNI connection that exits on the surface of the skin? Would a DNI connection that exits at your wrist so that you could just link up your wrist commlink to it after waking up be a viable alternative to the implanted commlink? And, if so, what cost in essence would that DNI connection be?
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Jul 8 2006, 11:06 AM
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#2
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Such implants are called... DataJacks. ;)
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Jul 8 2006, 08:51 PM
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#3
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
took the words right outta my mouth.... |
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Jul 9 2006, 12:34 AM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 433 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Iraq Member No.: 1,789 |
Yeah, I know that. I'm talking about something else entirely. I'm thinking something along the lines of a DNI port that is simply just a contact pad or something easily plugged into. However, datajacks might do the trick but would be blatantly obvious when sticking out of your wrist. Maybe a miniaturized datajack type thing. What would be the essence on that?
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Jul 9 2006, 12:51 AM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 984 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,717 |
A higher grade of datajack would probably be less obvious. For five thousand dollars a Delta Datajack will cost you .05 Essence and probably be pretty descrete.
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Jul 9 2006, 01:23 AM
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#6
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Target Group: Members Posts: 95 Joined: 28-June 06 Member No.: 8,800 |
The problem is the port, not the jack itself ... or rather, even that isn't.
It's more or less flavour and (usually) player decision if his datajack(s) are obvious or disguised - a simple protective cover will usually do. Of course you could just build a Skinlink into the covering, and ... voilà ... you have a disguised Datajack that doesn't even need a cable to connect to your commlink - for just an extra 150 :nuyen: . |
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Jul 9 2006, 01:30 AM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 984 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,717 |
DNI Skinlink? Interesting...
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Jul 9 2006, 01:32 AM
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#8
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Hmm, so basically you are thinking along the lines of the Subdermal Pads that used to come with a 3rd Edition Smartlink Implant?
Personally I think I'd treat it like Phobos has suggested, while keeping in mind that the implant could clearly be felt under the skin. (With Skinlinks personally I'd put my Datajack someplace where people are very unlikely to ever look for it, and carry a Skinlinked Chip Reader, or have a second Datajack installed for those times where I'd want to slot a chip...) |
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Jul 9 2006, 03:37 AM
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#9
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
There used to be exactly the piece of ware you wanted, called an 'inductive datajack' for, erm, .3 essence and 2000Y iirc.
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Jul 9 2006, 10:16 AM
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#10
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
i would hazard a guess that a SR4 datajack is port optional.
with wireless and skinlink, plus the fact that SR4 datajacks come with data storage, allows one to forgo the physical port. lets just say that any skillsoft or similar is basicly a signal 0 rfid and a battery. this means that you can in theory read it from 3 meters away. it allso allows you to have them skinlink modified. thereby allowing them to be read just by touching them. i would allow for the player to say if the datajack comes with a port or not, without any extra cost. its a flavor thing mostly. still, a port do allow for the physical wiring of two minds together ;) see that fan-story thats on this forum. |
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Jul 9 2006, 11:42 AM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 295 Joined: 10-July 05 Member No.: 7,492 |
Out of curiosity, where would you hide it? Under a toenail? An indeterminate part of the body below the belly button, but above the knee (front or back?)? Heck, the belly button? (talk about having an innie!) |
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Jul 9 2006, 12:37 PM
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#12
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,711 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,716 |
You get skinlink on devices...your wrist commlink would get skinlinked and you can use it any time your touching it. To bypass the stupid commlink as your hub with smartgun/link you skinlink the guns you use....
Your wanting to skinlink parts of your body so you dont have to rebuy it everytime you get a new gun or new commlink?? |
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Jul 10 2006, 05:21 AM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 433 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Iraq Member No.: 1,789 |
Not really. Basically I just wanted an induction datajack (thank you Crusher Bob) type "port" that would allow me to link my Commlink to DNI without having to implant it. Just because it's skinlinked doesn't mean I can access it mentally.
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Jul 10 2006, 06:00 AM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 984 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,717 |
You could just link your commlink via fiberoptic cale into your commlink.
I'm a fan of my idea for having a DNI skinlink implant but there isn;t one in the book. :( Datajack work just as well I guess... |
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Jul 10 2006, 06:09 AM
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#15
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
Personally I was thinking about implanting the Jack itself as deep as possible in the buttocks area, with the thinest possible fibers used to connect to the skin in the groin area. Now, admittedly, more then likely it wouldn't be able to pass through a Scanner, but it should be safe from pat-downs and the like... |
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Jul 10 2006, 10:40 AM
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#16
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,711 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,716 |
Why not? Thats exactly what a skinlink does?? If its not, then what does a skinlink do?? |
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Jul 10 2006, 01:32 PM
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#17
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Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
I may be misunderstanding what you are saying, but bascically all a Skinlink does is replace the Wireless/Fiber Aspect of comunication. You still need some way to get the data to and from your brain, either a Datajack or a set of Trodes, both of which also need to be Skinlinked. (Remember, each piece of equipment that you want to be able to use via Skinlink needs to have a Skinlink adapter installed.) |
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Jul 10 2006, 04:43 PM
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#18
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,711 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,716 |
Ok im gonna toss out some examples of how i understand things to work and you guys correct me.
#1. a smartgun can transmit its data through a skinlink to the hand of whoever is holding it and the data can travel to the guys cybereyes. #2. can a smartgun wirelessly transmit directly with cybereyes? #3. smartgun transmits data to your external comm which passes it on to your cybereyes. #4. smartgun transmits to your external comm which connects via cable to a datajack which then transmits to your cybereyes #5. smartgun transmits to your external comm which uses electrodes to send the data to your cybereyes. Are you guys saying that when you use skinlink its just using your body as a type of cable and you still have to have something on either end to transmit and receive the data? So you have your comm or gun skinlinked. Then the info is being carried along the surface of your skin to a datajack or trode net that also has skinlinks to pick up the info? How the hell does nanopaste trodes work? How does a commlink send data to paste. How does paste pick up the information? How often do you have to apply the paste? Do you think there would be some way to inbed trodes or paste as a body mod or something? Like the paste could be tattooed into your skin? So if two dudes with skinlinked comms and nanapaste trodes were holding hands they could have entrie conversations mentally? Is it possable to communicate if two people with nanopaste trodes touch each other in a way that there trodes are touching they cant talk directly with each other? |
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Jul 10 2006, 05:24 PM
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#19
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
bingo.
- handwavium ;) - as above - as above - not covered, but most likely as often as you shower. - not sure, but i dont see why not. your gm's call i guess.
most likely. alternativly they could replace the trodes and the comlinks with datajacks and do it that way. |
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Jul 10 2006, 06:14 PM
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#20
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,711 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,716 |
Ok im a mage with a commlink and a trode net. No sim module. Can i view AR with normal eyes (no glasses, contacts, and whatnot). Since trodes are two way can he mentally write emails or make commands without gloves?
Are AR gloves only for people who arent using trodes? Whats the difference between putting trodes on your head as opposed to the bottom of your feet. I mean the command to move my finger has to travel my entire nervous system before my finger moves. So why do trodes only have to be over the brain. It kinda sucks that trodes have to be on your head. I'd love to out have them out of view like along my spine. Any suggestions for kool trode set-up for the head? Is guess my most basic question is whats the bare minimum somebody needs to view and interact with AR without being cybered. |
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Jul 10 2006, 06:14 PM
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#21
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,706 Joined: 30-June 06 From: Fort Wayne, IN Member No.: 8,814 |
This is all my current understanding: 1) The smartgun has to be skinlinked and if it is travelling to the cybereyes, they need to be skinlinked as well. 2) My understanding of SR4, all electronics and cyberware have wi-fi capability, so yes, you could directly transmit between the two...realize though that without going through a commlink (which has more security measures), you are an easier target for hacking. 3) Yes, although you are still using wi-fi transmission. The commlink has to subscribe to both your smartgun and your cybereyes...by default, this would be wi-fi, but you could make it more secure by doing with skinlinked devices... 4) Yes, this would work also, as you have a cable to your DJ and your DJ, which uses DNI would connect to your cybereyes, which also are DNI. Basically, anything implanted is using DNI, so you can always connect those internally. 5) Yep, this would work as well, as you have your smartgun subscribed on your commlink and then from your commlink to your trodes, which connect neurally to your eyes. Realize, in all of these above situations, I am assuming your cybereyes have the smartgun link enhancement to receive all this info from the smartgun... Yes, skinlink is just substituting your skin for a cable...if you think of it like that, I think all this makes a lot more sense. |
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Jul 10 2006, 06:16 PM
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#22
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,706 Joined: 30-June 06 From: Fort Wayne, IN Member No.: 8,814 |
The bare minimum, IMO, is commlink with sim module and trodes...that should be all you need to intereact with AR, two-way. Its not the fastest, its not the most secure (meaning trodes can get knocked off), but as a minimum, with no cyberware, I think that is all you need. |
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Jul 10 2006, 06:57 PM
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#23
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
another bare minimum is a comlink with glasses, headset and gloves.
that way you can see, hear and interact with the AR interface... and i think the reason for the trodes being on the head is because it covers all the bases of I/O with the body, you can input both visual and audio data there (and even more if needed) and read out all other kinds of data. btw, the book talks about trodes often being coverd up by hats or wigs and similar. so even tho you use a trode net you dont have to look like your doing so ;) |
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Jul 10 2006, 08:06 PM
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#24
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,711 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,716 |
So unless you have cyberparts you have to have a sim module to turn the data into sensations.
Im having trouble with trodes and giving commands...... Ok lets say you commlink with no sim mod. You use glasses to see images and stuff, you use earbuds to hear audio information, i dont know what a glove would tell you but whatever. Could you have a trode net on also. Then lets say you see the image of a node in your vision and you want to opon it...instead of using your glove and "clicking buttons" couldnt you just use your trodes to give the command to open it mentally? Its seems like yeah ok to recieve sensory input you gotta either have an electronic device or have a sim module but performing mental commands with trodes such as making choices or composing mental emails should be possable. I dont get why an AR glove is necessary to interact with the matrix if you can give mental commands. Mental commands definately dont need a sim module to be understood otherwise you couldnt bypass a commlink to use smartgun/link via skinlinks and trodes/jacks. -------------------- Sub vocal trodes. if you talked into your sub vocal trodes and sent it off to a fellow runner who was running a commlink with a sim module and a trode net would he be able to hear you? Wouldnt you have to record what you said with a simrig in order for the commlink of the runner you are trying to communicate with to translate it into simsense ? I mean a sim module cant just INJECT simsense into something can it? How the hell would the sim module know what the guy sending the message sounded like or how loud or soft it was said ?? |
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Jul 10 2006, 08:13 PM
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#25
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
gloves would tell you touch data, like if the "object" you just came into contact with is buzzing, have spikes or whatever. it allso allows you to type on virtual keyboards and all that kinda stuff.
gloves, glasses and all that stuff is only needed if you dont go with a sim module and trodes. trodes without a sim module dont work at all. a jack on the other hand basicly have a sim module buildt in (atleast thats how i understand the book). and who said you could bypass a comlink and do the smartgun thing with just trodes? just a jack, maybe. but not with just trodes. |
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