 Most useless stat? |
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 Jul 12 2006, 08:18 PM
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#26
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Great, I'm a Dragon...  Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698  |
:D So your character looks really cool. I imagine a small guy with thin arms carrying large axe. |
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Jul 12 2006, 08:27 PM
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#27
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Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,545 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gloomy Boise Idaho Member No.: 2,006 |
Could he even carry the axe?
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Jul 12 2006, 08:42 PM
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#28
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Maybe. But nothing more ;)
"Hey, we're attacked by a naked nerd wielding a battle axe!" :D |
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Jul 12 2006, 09:08 PM
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#29
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 422 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Columbus, OH Member No.: 875 |
Sorry I didn't think to consider this, because I never play that type of character. |
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Jul 12 2006, 11:09 PM
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#30
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 18-April 03 From: The UV Nexus Member No.: 4,474 |
Notice that the attributes with the fewest linked skills, Body and Willpower, are the attributes that received the fewest votes. I guess everbody agrees that the Condition Monitors are the most important stat. Theres the rub. Some stats are important for reasons other than skills, and these reasons affect some archtypes more than others. Imagine a summoner without Charisma, a daredevil without Edge, and an adept low on Magic. Kinda like a Sammie without Body. Obviously, your choice of character type will influence how you rank the stats. The question is, does the order in which you rank the stats influence your choice of character types? |
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Jul 12 2006, 11:40 PM
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#31
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,266 Joined: 3-June 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,638 |
Actually I was thinking that Body was one of the less useful ones to buy actual points in, but only because there are a number of ways to substantially increase your body using 'ware and increase your soak pool with armour.
As far as improving your condition monitor, you need to make quite an investment in those traits to make much of a difference due to the +8 bump they both receive. Still, I null-voted as all stats are important depending on character type. Whoever you are, you're going to have a dump stat, but what precisely that is depends on character. Of course you all knew that already. |
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Jul 13 2006, 12:04 AM
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#32
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,241 Joined: 10-August 02 Member No.: 3,083 |
Nope. Not even for hackers...any activity you're undertaking using Hacking, Computer, or Electronic Warfare has a program to accomplish it. And if you're using a program to hack, your Logic doesn't come into play at all. Basically, you can be dumb as a stone and still be a great hacker, if you have the cash. |
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Jul 13 2006, 01:46 AM
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#33
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 984 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,717 |
"Nope. Not even for hackers...any activity you're undertaking using Hacking, Computer, or Electronic Warfare has a program to accomplish it. And if you're using a program to hack, your Logic doesn't come into play at all.
Basically, you can be dumb as a stone and still be a great hacker, if you have the cash. " Which seems very odd. RAW, but odd. |
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Jul 13 2006, 02:20 PM
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#34
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
In SR4, a strength of 1 is enough to carry 10KG. Although SR4 gear listings don't include item weight, I doubt anything's going to have become much heavier since SR3. By SR3 standards, I could carry an armored vest, normal clothes with a built-in commlink, a light pistol with ammo, and still having enough carrying capacity to tot 3 combat axes. |
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Jul 13 2006, 02:39 PM
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#35
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
It's already where the hacking "industry" is heading. You don't generally sit there typing in passwords until you hit it, or trying different serial numbers to crack your CD's protection, you use a program someone wrote (sometimes you if you're a serious hacker). |
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Jul 13 2006, 02:48 PM
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#36
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Ok, point for you :) But do we agree that a runner with strenght 1 looks not very muscular? (hope that's the right word) |
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Jul 13 2006, 03:44 PM
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#37
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
Oh absolutely. In-fact I quite like that fact. He's a very slender, tall, elf. I think his astral form looks similar, and perhaps even more exaggerated. If he was drawn, then it'd be in the style of the agents in the "World Record" story from the Animatrix (he's a corp type, so keep the suit and shades and add a similarly disproportionate axe). |
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Jul 13 2006, 04:20 PM
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#38
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
I voted Charisma, only two character types need it for much of anything. The face for negotiations, etc. and the mage for conjuring. Strength is a close second for all the previous arguments.
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Jul 13 2006, 06:54 PM
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#39
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Programming your own code will (hopefully) allow people to compensate for some of that... when Unwired comes out, we'll also (hopefully) see some stuff making having at least half a brain useful to hackers :P |
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Jul 13 2006, 07:11 PM
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#40
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,241 Joined: 10-August 02 Member No.: 3,083 |
Not really...I mean, what would the point be? You can just buy programs at a rating of up to 6, right? And that should hold you until you can buy up your programming skill to make better programs...or just buy a decent Cerebral booster. Remember, it's only 20k nuyen to buy a rating 2 booster (highest you can buy based on the availability cap at char gen)...20k nuyen is only 4 CP...compared to 10CP to buy a single point of Logic. Likewise, I looked at the price of buying a bunch of rating 5 programs (pretty much every program I wanted)...comes in around 63k. Which is only 13 points (with 2k nuyen to spare, even). Again, compare that to 10cp for a single point of logic. Hackers are better off investing in willpower and intuition, in that order, IMO. I had considered the math of just investing in a bunch of logic, hacking without programs for a while, and then coding my own programs around rating 7+...but it just doesn't make dollars or sense. |
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Jul 13 2006, 09:20 PM
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#41
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Again, it's largely contingent on the expansion of the hacking rules beyond the BBB. It's the same with every edition of SR... decking was never really well developed without the decker-related books. If we get things like code SOTA, reprogrammable (for special purposes) source code, or any number of other things thrown into the works that would make logical hackers happy, they should display an advantage over the script-kiddie Logic 2 hackers. Until the RAW includes more than just the BBB, we're working with a really stripped-down set of rules intended to let you have a hacker do his stuff.
I don't consider a game "finished" until it's core books are all out. My personal issues with the release schedule aside, I'm aware (as are my players) that when a book for a particular "type" of character comes out, they're probably going to noticeably change, right down to me letting them rebuild a version of that character that takes into account all the new stuff and changes in how things work. Yeah, there's some stats now that are kinda useless, but I'm not going to pass final judgement until we have all of the main game books in the pool. |
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Jul 13 2006, 10:21 PM
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#42
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,241 Joined: 10-August 02 Member No.: 3,083 |
I was never really all that fond of the add-on rulebooks for Shadowrun...while they were good reads, I found they generally increased the accounting end of the game to the point of being almost unmanageable, especially when it came to making custom equipment and the "extra" rules for minute details.
But of course, your mileage may vary. |
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Jul 13 2006, 10:37 PM
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#43
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
Some made more sense than others. Honestly, playing SR2 or SR3 with only the BBB rules in hand didn't do much for me... my players liked more variety. Drones in SR2, if memory served, ate up 1/3 of 1 page, and you weren't actually sure how they worked. Add in (playing SR3) Man and Machine, the Cannon Companion, the SR3 Companion, Virtual Realities 2.0, and Magic in the Shadows, and you had a pretty thoroughly fleshed out game. Rigger 3 added a lot of oddball stuff, but 2/3 of it could be ignored (just like the 1/3 of the stuff in the other books that could be ignored) and the game stayed playable.
If you used every rule out of every addon book, the game got to be a bit much. Happily, I play with a group that's pretty flexible... we say "Yeah, we're just not going to use X rule, treat it like the BBB says" when we encounter something we'd rather not deal with. At worst, a stickit or pencil notation in the book used as a game table reference (or an online changelog, which I've started using) makes this easy for everyone. |
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Jul 13 2006, 10:50 PM
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#44
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
LOL. Yeah. Did anyone actually use the naval combat rules? I once had a count down until some ship (never statted) was in range to hit the building the runners were in (a house-sized boat-shed) with some naval weapons fire, but that was hardly a full use. They got out but were still close enough to feel the shockwaves (albeit not as damage). Still, without R3 I think riggers were a bit gimped unless the DM was willing to house-rule a larger variety of vehicles in. |
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Jul 14 2006, 06:06 PM
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#45
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 511 Joined: 24-March 05 From: On a ledge between Heaven and Hell Member No.: 7,226 |
Trouble with writing your own programs is that the time is listed in months.
Where that may be realistic it essentailly makes writing your programs not possible without a lot of downtime. Just upgrading your hacking 3 to 5 with Logic 7 Software 5 would take a month. However Logic also affects build and repair skills: opening up that maglock; upgrading your guns or drones, becomes easier. |
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Sep 13 2006, 07:38 PM
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#46
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
We can always pray that the programming times are tweaked a little in Unwired.
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