Question About Pool Limits Options

[Schaeffer]

I just want to make sure my SR4-MathFu is correct...
If my Human character has an augmented Agility of 6 and a Pistol skill of 5, with a Specialization in Semi-Autos and a Reflex Recorder augmenting his Pistol skill, then his pool when firing a Semi-Auto pistol is 14, correct?

The only reason I ask is because I'm starting to get mixed up on all the caps that exist in the new edition. Skills max-out at rating 6 (or 7 with Aptitude), attributes max-out at 1.5 times the racial limit, and so on, but is there a limit to how many pool bonuses (such as from cyber/bio/specialization) a character can take advantage of?

I think the answer is no, but I just want to make sure. Thanks in advance.

[Phobos]

My RuleFu tells me you are correct.
The limits are only for attribute and skill ratings, not for dice pool boni from whatever source.

[Abbandon]

I think your not allowed to exceed your augmented attributes even with cyber/bio/spells/powers.

Some beneficial things dont add to attributes or skills and just add to test directly. Like if you maxed out a body attribute you would still get +2 damage resistance if you have bone lacing.

[Jagdcarcajou]

Heya,

Abandon is right (per page 109) but your combo still works, since Reflex Recorder is a bonus and it stacks with other bonuses (page 340), including your specialization.

Chris

[Schaeffer]

So basically if an implant's attribute bonuses would cause you to exceed your racially-based, augmented maximum (such as STR 9 for a human or REA 7 for a dwarf), then anything in excess is lost?

For example, a human with a natural REA of 6, if equipped with Wired Reflexes 3 and Reaction Enhancers 3, would be silly, because he could not reach a level of 12 with REA due to his augmented cap of 9, and therefore any benefits he would have hoped for with the Reaction Enhancers just wouldn't be there. He's "stuck" at REA 9 no matter what cyber/bio he has implanted. I believe that's correct.

Skills are capped at 6, unless they are an Aptitude then it's 7.

However, if an implant/spell/whatever simply adds to a dice pool, such as Bone Lacing's additions to specific resistance tests, or Enhanced Articulation's +1 dice pool mod to Physical Skills.

Specializations add to a dice pool, NOT to an actual skill rating/level?

But, Reflex Recorder's (p.340) are bonuses to a skill rating. Does that mean, if I have a Pistol skill of 6, and an Aptitude with Pistols, then I've hit my skill cap once the Reflex Recorder (Pistol Skill) is figured in?

Thanks again for the help.

[Abbandon]

Well i think it depends on the order in which you got them.

You max out pistols at rating 6. If you had already had reflex recorder up to then its already built into your rating of 6. So when you get aptitude instead of being 6/6 your now 6/7.

If you have a pistol of 6 and THEN get aptitude boosting it to a possable 7 and THEN got reflex recorder it would get boosted into 7/7



Also if your gonna take a reflex recorder you should take it for a group since they dont stack. You cant take one for firearms and another for pistol and get +2 while using pistols. It would only be +1.

Hmmm it does not say how a reflex recorder affects karma spendage. Like if you have firearms at 3 and get a recorder and boost it to 4. What will the next point cost? 4x whatever or 5x whatever. That would be a great way to bypass the double karma cost of exceeding your racial maximums.

[Phobos]

The only Boni to Skills that do count as Augmented Skill Rating are Skill Recorders and the Adept's Improved Ability, which is limited to 1.5x unaugmented max-rating. Karma expenditure for raising skill in this case is based on the augmented rating (Skill X 4 ( 7 ) -> 5 ( 8 ) = 7 -> 8 = 16 Karma)

Any augmentation that gives "+X (Attribute) for the purpose of (whatever)" is subject to the Attribute Cap, any augmentation that give "+X Dice" is not.

Edit : Errata Quotes, misremembered Skill Recorders ...

[Schaeffer]

So if a human has a beginning AGI of 4, they can raise it through karma to a 6 during gameplay, and can only augment it up to 9, correct?

And if a character begins the game with a skill at 2, the highest it can ever be raised through karma is 3?

I need to read more closely if the latter is correct. And if it is, some of my fellow players will never have beginning skills less than 6. Anything less and they'll go without.

[DireRadiant]

[Schaeffer]

Okay. I think I'm finally getting it...
I'm good on attribute limits and implants.
Implant mods to Skill ratings can never exceed 1.5 times the current base number, but that base number CAN be improved to a max of 6 (or 7) through the use of karma over time.
Have I finally seen the light?

[Phobos]

It seems your RuleFu is grown stronger. You are correct.
Bear in mind though that Skill Recorders are the only Cyber that adds to Skill Rating, Dice Pool Modifiers to Skills from other implants are not subject to any cap.

[Schaeffer]

<bows deeply, hands clasped together>