 New Shadowrun video game from Microsoft?, Anyone have opinions on this? |
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 Jul 19 2006, 04:01 PM
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#101
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Runner  Group: Members Posts: 2,579 Joined: 30-May 06 From: SoCal Member No.: 8,626  |
That or the Temple of Elemental Evil engine. Best implementation of rules from a Pnp RPG I've ever seen. Too bad it was rather bland if you've played the campaign before, since there is no GM. |
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Jul 19 2006, 05:19 PM
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#102
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Brahm, you're missing a lot of the point by focusing on the fact that as an FPS, the game isn't that bad.
Nothing you've said changes what our fundamental disappointment is based on. It's a run of the mill FPS, with vague, poorly written references to a rewritten history, and a couple of hacked together nods to the game Shadowrun. And then theres the question, "why an FPS"? Shadowrun, since its creation, has been an RPG. You might like to keep bringing up the fact that yes, there is combat, but to most of us, combat isn't the only part of Shadowrun that we would have liked to see in a video game. So a SR video game that only allows for the (in some campaigns very negligible) combat aspect of Shadowrun? Weak and lacking. One look across the CRPG spectrum shows that there is so much that could have been (could be) done with a Shadowrun game. Arcanum, NWN, even WoW (although I personally despise MMORPGs) show us that there's no reason that a SR CRPG couldn't/wouldn't work, and work well. So you can go ahead and defend the MS game as a decent FPS with vague references to Shadowrun. That's cool. It doesn't and won't change the reason(s) we're disappointed and angry. |
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Jul 19 2006, 05:22 PM
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#103
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Are you just pretending to know anything about programming? I'm thinking I know the answer. I'm also coming to the conclusion that you're only in this thread for the sheer sake of argument. |
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Jul 19 2006, 05:56 PM
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#104
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
okay. i'm officially calling this 'discussion' over. you're talking, right here, about a concept that has been around since Elf and Dwarf were character classes, and claiming that "making it like all the rest" will turn it into a "knockoff". it's a fucking spherical ball of flame, for god's sake. you say you're in a position to know what you're talking about. i call bullshit. there are two possibilities: 1) you're lying; 2) you're utterly incompetent. either way, i'm done talking to you on this subject. |
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Jul 19 2006, 06:01 PM
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#105
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
If you think the answer is 'Yes, a number of years of experience in various aspects of developing a commercial release program from programming, through testing, design, 3rd tier technical support, and conducting formal user education courses' then you are thinking right. Otherwise you are probably about as close as you are with this.
Which is to say, wrong. |
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Jul 19 2006, 06:02 PM
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#106
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
QUOTE (eidolon @ Jul 19 2006, 12:22 PM) QUOTE (Brahm) Great idea! Make it like all the rest! Whooo hoooo! Only, you know, you have to redo it all. So expending lots of effort to make a "knockoff". question.gif Are you just pretending to know anything about programming? I'm thinking I know the answer. If you think the answer is 'Yes, a number of years of experience in various aspects of developing a commercial release program from programming, through testing, design, 3rd tier technical support, and conducting formal user education courses' then you are thinking right. Otherwise you are probably about as close as you are with this. QUOTE I'm also coming to the conclusion that you're only in this thread for the sheer sake of argument. -------------------- Let me guess, you were in sales? |
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Jul 19 2006, 06:03 PM
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#107
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
Oddly enough that is the one job I never did. :) |
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Jul 19 2006, 06:04 PM
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#108
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,453 Joined: 17-September 04 From: St. Paul Member No.: 6,675 |
LOL.
By the way, I meant nothing by that, I just thought it was a humorous way to defuse a threadbombing campaign. |
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Jul 19 2006, 06:06 PM
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#109
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
Ya, well I wish I had had interest in sales. Having a job where you expense hookers on a CC, even if it was just for someone else, is just too cool. :rotfl: Sadly I don't really have much interest in pure sales. EDIT: In no small part because of the prospect of attempting to sell something to a nutball customer like mfb. :sleepy: "I want this, that, and the 1001 other things some of which are contradictory. Oh, and by the way I'm going to crap on you head when I get it because it's like the 2nd coming of the Edsel with a price tag that I'm going to bitch about because I it was really easy for me to nebulously toss out features, some of which are in other somewhat related products. And I want it all to work like the paper system we have now using the same process, but the process has to be better, and yeah, the same. Now read my mind, dipshit and get it right!" At the end of the day I was always thankful for those folks that were on the frontline for that. I got more than enough of it myself in customer support as it was. |
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Jul 19 2006, 06:22 PM
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#110
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,579 Joined: 30-May 06 From: SoCal Member No.: 8,626 |
Having done some programming myself, albeit not much, just some stuff in C++, it is quite difficult to comprehend the work involved in "ripping off what doom did". Especially since you would be working in a different environment than it did. The basic coding of it? Maybe not so difficult, but once you have to start adding in the physics, sound, graphics, suddenly you're tacking that much more dev time onto a game.
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Jul 19 2006, 06:32 PM
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#111
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
the thing is, X-Kalibur, that it's no more difficult that anything else they've done with this game. it's no more complicated than firearms attacks, or grenades, or healing trees. moreover, fireballs (and other attack spells) are an established part of Shadowrun. dwarves which dispel magic in a certain radius are not. so, instead of getting game elements which are actually a part of SR, we're getting stuff that the devs just made up.
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Jul 19 2006, 06:36 PM
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#112
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
We'll have our people look into that. So how about lunch Wednesday....at the strippers? Nope, that job just ain't for me. :( |
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Jul 19 2006, 06:44 PM
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#113
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Can someone confirm whether the game has grenades or not, and whether the scenery responds to player actions (missed attacks primarily)?
I can understand from a flavor standpoint why they left offensive magic out. It's been done a bajillion times over, and when you have attack magic you have a large focus on casters that are just nukers. Removing the ability to nuke shifts the flavor of casters. |
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Jul 19 2006, 06:46 PM
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#114
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,579 Joined: 30-May 06 From: SoCal Member No.: 8,626 |
Fireballs are really more a D&D domain (along with Lightning bolts). Manabolts/balls, stunbolts/balls, powerbolts/balls are the big SR ones. |
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Jul 19 2006, 06:54 PM
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#115
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i'd argue that fireballs are just as much a part of SR as they are D&D, since SR (and RPGs in general) took a lot of their base assumptions from D&D. for instance, stunball fairly closely mimics the effects of a D&D sleep spell--a fact that is even referred to in the SR3 spell description. 'sides, the fireball thing is just an example standing in for offensive spells in general.
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Jul 19 2006, 06:57 PM
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#116
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Target Group: Members Posts: 77 Joined: 30-June 06 Member No.: 8,813 |
Back to the topic at hand.....
If I was in charge of developing a new Shadowrun RPG...I would higher all the guys that worked on Vampire: Bloodlines from Troika. Vampire: Bloodlines had to be the coolest story driven FPS RPG I've ever played, despite its bug problems. The only only game I've played that could challenge it as the best single player FPS RPG Hybrid game EVER is TES4: Oblivion. The Haunted Hotel level in Vampire: Bloodlines is the single best piece of scripted gaming EVER in video game history. Period. The NPC interactions were brilliant, very well voice acted, the story was compelling, and the atmosphere immersive. The guys who worked on that game were VERY passionate about the source material and remained truthful to it from the ground up. That's what Shadowrun needs. People who are passionate about the source material developing it. I don't think Shadowrun would work very as an MMO. Its much better left as a single player experience IMHO. But, it could be done as an MMO, but it would suffer from the same problems as any other MMO out there. Winey griefers, gold botting, item harvesting, ebaying, a requirement that you have to group with others, all that crap. Personally, I think the Shadowrun experience would be best as an Action RPG in the vein of Deus Ex, Vampire: Bloodlines, and System Shock 2. |
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Jul 19 2006, 06:58 PM
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#117
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,095 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ontari-airee-o Member No.: 1,115 |
Who cares if they have grenades. Looking at the tree of life they have particle effects. The fireball will just be a sphere that races off spawning particles. Brahm stop being a troll here ... you are just being difficult to increase your post count.
Long and short of it ... we want something that looks like shadowrun and the incorporates genre elements like trolls, mana balls, story background, and cyberware. So fasa has 1 of these 4 elements. Trolls. They break the most basic cannon rules in shadowrun, like teleporting and resurrection. Why ??? because they are trying to stick a square peg in a round hole. We don't care about stats and karma, and skill ratings, we want something that looks and feels like shadowrun .... cyberware and magic. They are short changing the genre. They would be better off making some kind of mutant game. |
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Jul 19 2006, 07:00 PM
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#118
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,095 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ontari-airee-o Member No.: 1,115 |
If you want a cyberpunk MMO ... play neocron. |
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Jul 19 2006, 07:00 PM
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#119
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,579 Joined: 30-May 06 From: SoCal Member No.: 8,626 |
Actually, last I checked they had cyberware as well.
ugh, Neocron. Better off with Anarchy Online. |
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Jul 19 2006, 07:01 PM
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#120
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Which, I should add, isn't a very good example—the different spells all have varying amounts of (mostly art-related) complexity involved. For Fireball, you need all kinds of pretty fire. For Toxic Wave, you have to figure out a non-silly-looking way for all that sludge to kinda vanish at about the edge of the AOE. For Stunball, you could legitimately just have people fall down inside the radius (or take stun damage, as appropriate). The first is… well, I'm not going to say it's hard, but it isn't no work. The second one could be hard. The third is utterly trivial. ~J |
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Jul 19 2006, 07:22 PM
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#121
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
My point about the grenade is that it makes coding a fireball easy. Unless that tree deals damage in a radius, it's not a fireball and would require some work to shoehorn it into a fireball form. Without knowing how it's programmed I have no idea how much work it would actually take.
Cleremond: I agree completely about Vampire Bloodlines. The hotel was the only sequence in a game ever to have me jump out of my seat. I've heard similar things about Phear (Fear?) but haven't gotten a chance to play it. |
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Jul 19 2006, 07:28 PM
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#122
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
How about you give your worn, tired stock line "stop trolling" a rest for once? Because it never had any accuracy and long any bit of meaning it ever had some time back.
Um, cyberware too. So that makes 3. :P Of course the the story background is part of what is sending the Canon Kings into such a frenzy. Because it only roughly matches the SR timeline and setting. That is something mfb is right about, that could be made somewhat closer even at this point. But likely not close enough for the Canon Kings because it is going to deviate, would require among other things that every elf in the game to be a spike baby, and offically create the existance of spike dwarves. |
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Jul 19 2006, 07:34 PM
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#123
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
That I could end up being the toughest. The problem is what is the colour of stun? Because you need something visual somewhere. Running along and you just flop over? Even with sound, that ain't going to fly Ricco. |
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Jul 19 2006, 07:35 PM
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#124
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,095 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ontari-airee-o Member No.: 1,115 |
You misunderstood me.
I was talking about the tree having particle effects. Particles would be a class effect that can be attached to any object. Bullets, weapons, trees. 1 grenades are area affect, fireball isn't ... it is a combat spell. 1 target only. Hellblast is a different story. Short and simple ... all of the ground work for fireballs have been developed before and would be part of the engine they are building the game with. |
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Jul 19 2006, 07:40 PM
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#125
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,095 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ontari-airee-o Member No.: 1,115 |
How about being a dick and shut the hell up. Good enough for you? It is more star wars or 20 other genres than shadowrun. |
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