 Building your own matrix agents |
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 Jul 18 2006, 08:57 PM
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#1
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Shooting Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,711 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,716  |
Ok so i wanna make some kool agents for my drones and stuff. So tell me if i get anything wrong.
First you determine your agents rating which will determine its pilot attribute. Which has a max of 4 at character creation. Your firewall matches your pilot attribute for agents so he also has firewall 4. And its built in so you dont pay for that part. Now the agents response attribute equals whatever node it is being run on. Now it gets messy... If an agent is acting independant then its programs must be active which might affect its response. Also programs are limited to the pilot rating of the agent. However i dont see anywhere where it mentions what an agents system rating is set to so how do we know if our programs are slowing us down or not?? Let me make some examples: Node response (4) Agent(4): Analyze(4), attack(4), stealth(4), track(4) Pilot 4, firewall 4, Response 4 Now what?? System is limited by response. So The system above has to be 4. Which means i get a -1 response. Which according to your religion either causes a death spiral or my response to = 3. Can agents be loaded up with autosofts?? If i give my agent a command program could he drive my vehichle or something? If i have agents who i want to stay in contact with they have to be subscribed to my com limiting me in that way ? What if i stick an agent in a vehichle, he cant go anywhere do i have to keep him subscribed? Or could i cut him loose and then when i need to talk to him subscribe him. I guess its like turning the wi-fi on or off on your devices? How do you get a vehichle to have a response,system, firewall, signal attribute?? Install a comm or something? *edit* Oh pilot = system for vehichles/ drones/ agents. So how does a vehichle get a response or signal. |
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Jul 18 2006, 08:59 PM
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#2
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,579 Joined: 30-May 06 From: SoCal Member No.: 8,626 |
I named my agent Smith. He's not a very happy sort though.
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Jul 18 2006, 09:12 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 324 Joined: 18-July 06 From: Charleston, SC Member No.: 8,911 |
A pilot or agents rating = its system. So a rating 4 pilot/agent with 4 programs on a node rating of 4 has a response of 3.
An agent can only run a program up to its rating (so a rating 4 agent with an exploit 6 program runs it at 4 as limited by the system). I don't have the book in front of me right now to find the page that says this. Somewhere around the matrix chapter for pilot/agents/IC |
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Jul 18 2006, 09:18 PM
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#4
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
You've got it mixed up a little. Agent <> Drone. Agent = Software, Drone = Hardware. Since your Drone has a Device Rating (3 or 4), you can load Software on it and set it up like any other Node/Device. If your Drone has a Rating of 4 (this means System, Firewall, Response, Signal = 4), it can run up to Sysx2 (2x4=8) programs where it suffers a Response decrease. This is number of Programs the Drone's computer system can run, the Agent counts as one program. So, your Agent-4 (Analyze-4, attack-4, stealth-4, track-4) would be the only Program running in your Drone's computer system. You could load Autosoft in your Drone's computer system just like you did the Agent and they count against the Drone's System/Response, not the Agent. The Drone's Program load might be: - Agent-4 (Analyze-4, attack-4, stealth-4, track-4) - Clearsight-4 - Targeting-4 Agents derive their Reponse Rating from the Node the occupy. This means if for some reason your Drone had too many programs loaded 8+ (yours or maybe a hacker) and the Drone's Reponse dropped to 3, so would the Agent's Reponse. This in turn means all the programs loaded in the Agent would also function at 3 instead of 4 since Reponse limits System and System limits effective program Rating. |
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Jul 18 2006, 09:24 PM
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#5
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
warning, this a interpetation of the rules that may not be valid... |
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Jul 18 2006, 09:26 PM
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#6
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,711 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,716 |
Ok i have a GMC Bulldog. I upgrade its pilot to rating 4.
Bulldog = Pilot 4, Firewall 4, program limit 4. Response ??? Now if i make an agent like the one above. Agent 4: Analyze 4, Attack 4, stealth 4, track 4. How many programs does that count as 1 or 5 as far as my van is concerned? geez i cant find anything that mentions response of drones/vehichles. |
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Jul 18 2006, 09:36 PM
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#7
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,711 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,716 |
Ok so the agent counts as one program, i thought i had read that. Grinder do you have a page reference for what you said about a drone being able to run systemx2 programs before suffereing a response penalty ? I've never seen that.
Do you just buy response and signal hardware for your drones and vehichles? |
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Jul 18 2006, 10:00 PM
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#8
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
It's any Device/Node with a Rating can run Programs and suffers from this. The default rating for a Drone is 3 or 4 (I've posted about which it is and there is no solid conclusion) and that Rating equals all your Matrix attributes (System, Firewall, Respone, Signal). There are no mod rules so for now (for Drones), all you can base your Signal/Reponse on is your Device Rating. There are rules to tweak your ratings but Rating-5 looks to be max at chargen. I don't have book handy, but look up Matrix attributes and check about Device Ratings (maybe P.200-228). |
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Jul 18 2006, 10:02 PM
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#9
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
Why? If the Reponse (Node derived) drops to 3, this forces System=3. System determines max effective program rating, correct? |
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Jul 18 2006, 10:24 PM
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#10
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
thing is that nowhere is it stated that this have a loop effect. as in, its never stated in any way that a drop in response leads to a drop in system. it only say that you cant have a higher system then you have response. if this is base response or effective response (as in after being modified from running more programs then system) is never defined. problem is that by running the right number of programs you can have the whole device hit zero response in no time. how does this happen? well lets take a device with response 6 and system 6. fire up 6 programs. thats equal to system, and by the rules on page 212, that should result in response dropping by 1. if now system allso have to drop by 1, then your now running 2 programs above the limit, wich is system - 1 given the wording on page 212 (the device have a effective response of 5 and a effective system of 5, running 6 program). question now is, should it again drop by 1. or did the previous drop allready fullfill that condition? unless its the latter (and given that they never talk about a scenario like this, one cant tell) one have to again reduce the response by 1 (giving effectivly a 4), resulting in yet another drop in system (effective R4). so now we are running 3 programs above the limit. see where this is going? there is no way for it to stop unless there either isnt a feedback loop, or the first drop fullfills the requirement (until you fire up enough programs to go system x 2 and so on). this one of those things i would wish they released a faq on. |
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Jul 18 2006, 10:29 PM
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#11
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
Maybe I've mis-read about Reponse/System here's what I recall (looks like it's time for a re-read). I thought it was each multiple of Reponse before the effective System dropped a rating point.
So Response=6 and System=6... Sytem would drop a point once 12 programs where running, then another point on 24, then again on 36, etc. At that point, System=3 and all the programs running would be effectively 3, all 36 of them. This right? |
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Jul 18 2006, 10:47 PM
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#12
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
nope, 1 point at 6 programs running, 1 more (total 2) at 12, 1 more at 18 (total of 3), total 4 at 24, total 5 at 32...
thats is system dont change. if its changes then the likely curve (if one assumes that the allready existing drop fullfilles the need for a drop at the new ratings) becomes: 1(total) at 6, 2 at 11, 3 at 15, 4 at 18 and onwards... and now that i put that list of numbers up, i think that this may be a good compromise between the interpetations. at 18 programs running (starting from rating 6) they would have a effective rating of 2, unless they where bought as rating 1. question still remains, what happens when you fire up 21 programs? (the point where the effective response becomes 0) |
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Jul 18 2006, 10:51 PM
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#13
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
I've been away from me books too long it seems! Time for some re-reading.
Thanks. ~GTT |
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Jul 19 2006, 05:14 AM
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#14
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
Ok I re-read SR4.212,213 and here's what I've got: Reponse is affected by the number of programs you have running. For each (System) amount of programs running, you Reponse drops 1 rating. System is limited by the Reponse rating of the system its on. A System run a device with a lower Reponse rating, functions at the Reponse rating. System also is the limiter for the max rating a program can be run on that node. So, Response=5, System=5, running 7 Rating-5 Programs, would make suffer -1 Response : Response=4 and System would function as a 4. I'd argue that the programs (limited by your System rating) would also cap at 4 since System=4. The System rating isn't reduced, but it functions at the lower limit, so you don't get the downward spiral, it steps at your System Rating: No mention of Matrix attributes dropping below 1, but you'd need 25 programs (For System 5, Reponse 5) to bump Reponse to <1. From my prior posts, I was getting the subscription list limit mixed with the Reponse decrease rule. |
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Jul 19 2006, 05:40 AM
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#15
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,711 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,716 |
I believe the spirit of the rules was to suggest that running to many programs makes you slower. Not cripples you. If your dropping system and program ratings you have already started the death spiral so why stop?
Matrix hitpoints = system/2 round up +8. If you run to many programs are you also gonna lose hitpoints also ? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I want to modify a GMC Bulldog so i can rig it and i also want it protected by Agents/IC and i will probably wanna give it some autosofts. Now a vehichles device rating =3, security vehichle=4, and a military vehichle=5. Device ratings determine a devices attributes like response, firewall, pilot/system, and signal. So am I to assume my gm bulldog has a response, signal, firewall, and system of 3 by default? And can i mod it out to fit in fatter software. Availability caps pilot software at rating 4. sr4 pg240 talks about response and signal upgrades which cap at rating 5 for character generation. So i could get response 5 and pilot/system 4 and run 7 programs and suffer -1 reponse to drop it to 4. My system=4 so my programs would all be capped at 4?? Man i wish they had that stupid hardware upgrade table in the back along with the software upgrades. |
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Jul 19 2006, 05:58 AM
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#16
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
I am just referencing what 212-213 explains. Response limits System, System caps max program rating.
From how I am seeing it explained, yes. Hardware upgrades are on P.240 (Signal/Response) unless you are talking about Drone hardware. |
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Jul 19 2006, 06:07 AM
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#17
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,711 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,716 |
Should you treat a vehicle/drone like a commlink in all things except vehicles drones also have autosofts??
If a person has a comm w/ sim module they can get all this virtual crap on there comm like surround music, virtual person, wall coverings. Then it talks about the people you have over to your house or whatever can hook up with your comm to see those things to. Would it be possable to mod my GMC bulldog up with a sim module and give it a virtual person who would like emboddy my vehicles soul. Everytime i am near my vehicle this virtual person would be around to give me status reports or something and if others are hooked up to my comm they would see the person to?? Also along the lines of adding software to vehicles. What does mapsoft count as. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Taking things to the next step. Can i program an agent to pilot my vehicles/drones?? Could i make it so an agent is tied to my virtual person?? Like i could jump in the passenger side of my GMC Bulldog and i would see my virtual person sitting in the drivers seat and i could send it a command to drive me to wherever and off i'd go. (people able to see into my vehicle would see me in the passenger side and the vehicle driving itself.) *edit* Hmmmm i dont have to use an agent with a command program i just need the vehicle's pilot program. Does that mean ALL vehichles have an autopilot feature sincethey all have pilot ratings? I'd have to tell my vehichle where to go via AR/VR though. Ok i guess i need to ask how can i mod my GMC Bulldog to accept voice commands? I suppose if you must you could compare this to this crapfest tv show Andromeda and her holographic version Remi or whatever. No i dont plan on ever making a physical version of my virtual person. |
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Jul 19 2006, 06:28 AM
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#18
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
It's okay, one of my player wanted to have Drones with holograhic projcetors that made them look like spiders.
Bottom line is, device ratings impart Matrix attributes on them and that means you can run software on them like Programs, Autosofts and Agents. |
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Jul 19 2006, 06:59 AM
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#19
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,711 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,716 |
Uhh if im modding my GMC Bulldog into a drone basically and giving it autosofts can i give it Defense so it can dodge bullets ?? lmao.
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Jul 19 2006, 07:12 AM
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#20
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
Yeah, that's what drone do. |
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Jul 19 2006, 09:02 AM
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#21
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,711 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,716 |
Ok to finall get back on point hehe. What are some cool agent set ups you can create for with 3 programs? Im trying to protect my comm and vehichle/drones with them.
So far for my comm I only have these three: Ninja(4): Stealth(4), Analyze(4), Attack(4) Counter(4): Track(4), Analyze(4), Attack(4) Gaurdian(4): Armor(4), Analyze(4), Attack(4) Would analyze, decript, and sniffer be a good combo to find out access ID's? -Does track work if the target's info is encrypted? -if I track somebody i find their original node but do i have access to it or do i have to try and hack it before i can attack their persona? -Do my other agents need analyze to spot intruders or do i only need one agent with analyze? -Can i load an agent up with Data Bomb and then plant it on someone's persona? -If one of my agents is crashed do i have to rebuy them? -can i make copies of blank or custom agents? I paid 60,000 for 6 agents. should i have only baught 1 and just copied it ? |
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Jul 19 2006, 07:26 PM
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#22
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,711 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,716 |
I really need to know if you have to buy each individual agent? If i can free up 50k nuyen that would be great.
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Jul 19 2006, 07:42 PM
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#23
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
Unless you break the copy-protection (~20 hours) you'd have to purchase each copy of software you wish to use. |
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Jul 20 2006, 07:52 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 165 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,002 |
Blue screen of death? |
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Jul 20 2006, 07:55 PM
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#25
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Ooh, 20 hours. My house rule for characters who have do-it-yourself B/R skills and want to build all their own gear at chargen, etc. is that everyone gets 1 month of work time to upgrade vehicles/commlinks/talismongering/etc. and anything else has to be paid for full price out of standard resources. |
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