 Tech level in 2070, Will RL tech be at SR levels then? |
  |
 Jul 19 2006, 01:30 PM
Post
#1
|
|
|
Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019  |
In Shadowplay, a character says that the reason the world isn't more advanced than it is now is because the crash virus wiped out most of the high-security memory banks. Because of this, a lot of old supertechnology was lost to time. Now, do you think RL tech will be as good or better by the time SR rolls around, and do you think the megacorporate system is good or bad for R&D in general?
|
 |
 
|
|
Jul 19 2006, 02:04 PM
Post
#2
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
maybe you should divide this questions into different sub fields. for example:
- computers (optoelectronics, quantumcomputers . . .) - cyberware - bioware - consumer electronics (trid, drones . . .) - software (SKs, AI . . .) - general physics (nanotechnology, superconduction . . .) |
|
|
|
|
Jul 19 2006, 02:17 PM
Post
#3
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
The idea of a virus wiping out high tech R&D databases does not make any sense. It might hit a few of them but most of them would be disconnected from the internet and have upload and download procedures that would stop the virus from reaching their network.
Basically a few would get hit because someone would be transferring files into the system when the virus started to hit, but once the virus was detected network security protocols would say "no more file transfers until this thing is stopped." Some more businesses would either not have these policies or not have them followed, but most would stay perfectly safe with little to no interference with their day-to-day work. That said though, the virus is as good a reason as any. The odds are very good that RL tech will outstrip cyberpunk tech by the time 2070 rolls around. Heck, we've already got guys moving a mouse and opening email with just their brains and a computer chip. Because the tech difference will be there, putting in something to account for it is necessary if you want to maintain suspension of disbelief. Otherwise you get people saying "but we've got datajacks now and they're not due for another 25 years." |
|
|
|
|
Jul 19 2006, 02:48 PM
Post
#4
|
|
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
And if we were allowed to conduct horribly unethical research like in SR, we'd also have a 3-d matrix.
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 19 2006, 03:08 PM
Post
#5
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
3-d matrix technology can be developed without even a hint of unethical conduct. Shadowrun takes the unethical route by default, because that's how the game is set up, but it's far from the only option.
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 19 2006, 03:53 PM
Post
#6
|
|
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Do you think the megacorporate system is an efficient way of organizing research as opposed to today?
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 19 2006, 03:59 PM
Post
#7
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
I don't really see a lot of difference between the megacorp method of research and research today. In both cases you've got a bunch of groups of researches in their labs digging around in whatever their profession uses as a petri dish.
If you mean "can unethical research practices speed things up" then the answer is usually yes and no, depending entirely on the product. Unethical practives can definitely speed things to market though, since you get to bypass all that bothersome "safety testing" BS. |
|
|
|
|
Jul 19 2006, 04:00 PM
Post
#8
|
|||
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,026 Joined: 23-November 05 From: Seattle (Really!) Member No.: 7,996 |
Not at all. The Shadowrun Megacorps serve most of their purpose as a plot device, they are about as divorced from real life business practice as Star Trek is from real life space exploration. The Megacorps are a nearly farsical collection of all the worst business practices and biggest gaffes ever documented collected in to a handful companies. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jul 19 2006, 04:26 PM
Post
#9
|
|
|
Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Most of the megacorporations seem to do corporate raiding constantly. Is it really that easy, even with a bajillion dollars?
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 19 2006, 04:29 PM
Post
#10
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
It depends on the corporation. If you've got a global company looking to acquire Joe's Pizza, Inc. the odds are pretty good that Joe doesn't know what he's doing and has no way of knowing how to stop a hostile takeover, much less have anything already in place. If it's Globocorp wanting to take over Globodyne then more maneuvering is necessary, with jockeying done to influence the market.
And as always, if doing it one way is easy, but doing it another requires shadowrunners, it'll make for a boring evening to do it the easy way. :) |
|
|
|
|
Jul 19 2006, 08:40 PM
Post
#11
|
|
|
Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...I have introduced the concept of consortiums as a counter to the Megacorp model in my campaigns
The primary one is The Olympus Group who's main focus is on transportation technologies. It is composed of the following companies: Marathon AeroTek, (Aircraft) Marathon SpaceTek (Spacecraft & Space Systems), Olympus Aero Engines (Aircraft Propulsion), Aeon Technologies (Ground & water vehicles), and I-Motive (Fuel Cell electric power & Linear Propulsion drive systems). The model I based this on the the RL consortium, Airbus Industrie, which is a group of several European aerospace concerns (including Messerschmit, Sud Aviation, Fokker, Hispano Suzia, and Piaggo) which banded together in the 1970s to compete against the US giants Boeing & McDonnell Douglas (which itself is now a part of Chicago based Boeing) |
|
|
|
|
Jul 19 2006, 10:09 PM
Post
#12
|
|||||
|
Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
I must disagree here. Megacorps, as they are presented in SR, are basicly soverign Socialist states what are dedicated to profitmaking through the exportation of finished goods. It isn't entirely impractical if they can avoid the pitfalls of Socialism and maintain strong economic ties with the outside. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jul 19 2006, 10:47 PM
Post
#13
|
|||||||
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,026 Joined: 23-November 05 From: Seattle (Really!) Member No.: 7,996 |
I think this view of the Megacorp is valid too, at least from a Geo-Political standpoint. The point I was making is that they behave in a way that seems to be sort of a caricature derived from the worst reported business practices of todays corporate world. It's kind of like Dilbert meets Enron Scandal meets Mr. Burns Power Plant with a little bit of Virtucon (Dr. Evils company) thrown in. What you say about them being export driven states is true economically, and if they were run like normal businesses they probably would work pretty well, it's just that all the source material has them being run in ways that work well from a game plot point of view but make little or no sense from an actual business perspective. |
||||||
|
|
|
||||||
|
Jul 20 2006, 02:33 AM
Post
#14
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 256 Joined: 24-October 04 Member No.: 6,784 |
Remember that alot of technical knowledge is (presumably) lost in the chaos and recession/depression after the crash. Also, the crazy paranoia of the megas can account for slower advancement, Corp scientests may not be producing published research by the broader scientific community to keep an edge on their cutting advance, but the result is that the crosspollinatization of ideas we are used to dosen't happen.
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 20 2006, 03:10 AM
Post
#15
|
|||
|
Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Never mind products, a lot of the basic research into human stress tolerance, etc. came as a result of German experimentation on live human subjects during the 1930s and '40s. Sure it won't help, say, quantum physics to have ethical guidelines scrapped, but it would dramatically increase our rate of knowledge acquisition about human biology and all its facets. ~J |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jul 20 2006, 04:46 AM
Post
#16
|
|
|
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
the fate of the free world depends on knowing what the effects of shooting a human being with a quantum computer are!
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 20 2006, 08:54 AM
Post
#17
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 28-February 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,319 |
I think RL computers could well exceed the capabilities of SR 2070. I would expect artificial intelligence to be widespread, and VR ought to take off as soon as a) they've worked out how to do it without making users sick and b) a major console manufacturer includes a VR headset as standard with their next-gen console.
Biotech could go far, but I suspect many SR-like developments will be hampered by widespread religious and moral objections. Megacorporate extraterritoriality might spur the kind of uninhibited arms race (and it would literally be an arms race) that could bulldoze past such objections, but I don't see that happening in the real world. Space exploration, I fear, won't even have achieved the miserable amount of progress seen in SR. Cyberware- I don't think so. Firstly it would face the same kind of objections that I mentioned above, but more crucially I think it would hit the 'power wall'. I just don't see battery technology achieving sufficient capacity and compactness to make most of that stuff feasible. Of course I would love to be wrong, because if there's one thing that would really change the world it'd be new advanced power technology- portable fusion or zero-point devices perhaps. But it's a slim hope. More likely it'll be a biomethanol fueled world but I still don't think that'll scale down enough to power cyberlimbs. Of course I started this by saying that artificial intelligence might really take off, and (especially if it's powered by quantum computing, which is just damn scary)that could change the entire playing field. |
|
|
|
|
Jul 20 2006, 12:04 PM
Post
#18
|
|||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 305 Joined: 2-March 03 Member No.: 4,188 |
Firstly; we'll beat the SR timeline if we proactively attempt to. Directing consumer power and political power, even in tiny increments, will speed us up. Heck, helping (at nearly no personal cost) with Distributed Computing helps.
Biotech can go very far. We don't see it very much because 1) we're young and don't see the differences yet and 2) any new medical device was actually invented 10 years ago and is just now being approved. As for the deliberate hampering of this research: Commentary: Bush to stem cell community — drop dead This is more damning than it seems on the front of it, because most universities/labs have partial federal funding. And no new stem cell research is allowed (other than on the fruitless 22) anywhere federal dollars have been used. Cyberware:Keep in mind that we're currently researching methods of making cybernetic limbs that are 100x stronger than muscle.
Space:Of course, I also think that saving up to visit the Space Hotel is worth our time, too. If there is a customer base, the advances will roll forward. Eventually, if I put money aside slowly, compounding interest and a drop in price will mean I can afford to go (spurring even greater R&D with their profits) |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jul 20 2006, 01:46 PM
Post
#19
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,095 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ontari-airee-o Member No.: 1,115 |
Please clarify, EMBRYONIC STEM CELLS. There are a lot of stem cell research being done with sources other than embryos. (They are also safer and more effective) Right now embryonic stem cells turn cancerous more often than not, while stem cells from hair and marrow are less likely to do so.
This post has been edited by Platinum: Jul 20 2006, 03:26 PM |
|
|
|
|
Jul 20 2006, 02:07 PM
Post
#20
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 305 Joined: 2-March 03 Member No.: 4,188 |
You're right, the bill involves embryonic stem cells. The current law denies access to ESC research (on new lines) through any laboratory that has received federal funding, ever. Since most research takes place in universities and hospitals (that have received some federal funding), it's basically a ban.
With regards to the technical issues around ESC; those are merely technical issues, but they will not be resolved as quickly by forcing scientists to use subpar tools. The scientists will continue to study ESC, in public facilities, but may only use the low-quality cell-lines that are approved. |
|
|
|
|
Jul 20 2006, 02:17 PM
Post
#21
|
|
|
Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
And meanwhile the rest of the world will heal the sick and dying while america's religious minority condemns its populace to death.
|
|
|
|
|
Jul 20 2006, 02:50 PM
Post
#22
|
|||
|
Cybernetic Blood Mage Group: Members Posts: 3,472 Joined: 11-March 06 From: Northeastern Wyoming Member No.: 8,361 |
I haven't heard the bit about Embryotic Stem Cells turning cancerous before, but I do think its strange that if non-Embryotic Stem Cells were safer and more effective that whenever I hear the actual scientists themselves speak they say that although research is being done to turn non-Embryotic Stem Cells into a state simlair to Embryotic Stem Cells, as of yet Embryotic Stem Cells is still the more promising choice. Oh wait, I forgot, those sciectists are evil minions of the Culture of Death! They don't really mean it when they say that they hope that research turns up better results in changing non-Embryotic Stem Cells to be more suitable, they just want the pleasure of killing innonent babies!!! Sorry, I've gotten my head straight now, excuse me while I go and burn my Harry Potter and W.I.T.C.H. books before they have a chance to corupt the minds of my children... |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Jul 20 2006, 03:11 PM
Post
#23
|
|||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 28-February 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,319 |
Please.. I beg of you.. it's embryonic not embryotic! ;) Embryotic is what Bush probably calls them.
Well that's interesting. I'm still dubious about how long any such fuel would last but I'm happy to concede this one. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Jul 20 2006, 03:17 PM
Post
#24
|
|
|
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,095 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Ontari-airee-o Member No.: 1,115 |
If you stopped being so ignorant and did some research you might learn something instead of being a sheep following propeganda.
Just because I said there are better, less risky, and more effective sources doesn't mean I am a christian anti-ESC zeolot. Truth is there are better sources which are producing better results. The reason there is such a push for ESC is basically for mass production. (which means more money in it for the company that develops the technology) Try subscribing to news feeds and follow the articles. http://p.moreover.com/cgi-local/page?o=rss...Genetics%20news http://rss.news.yahoo.com/rss/science The US is far from lagging behind in ESC research. |
|
|
|
|
Jul 20 2006, 03:21 PM
Post
#25
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 681 Joined: 28-February 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,319 |
Thought that was aimed at me for a moment, and I must say as a geneticist I felt a little put out! :grinbig:
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 24th April 2024 - 12:42 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.