Subscription lists, Subscription is not secure enough Options

[The Jopp]

The Subscription List

Am I the only one scratching my head at this?

The Persona has a subscription list over devices that are allowed to establish communications with you, fine, that’s dandy, I’m happy now – except for a few odd things.

Why is the subscription list always a two-way communication. What if I only want to receive information from my SB Microskimmers imagelink? According to the RAW the Subscription list and the “You many configure your devices so that they only interact with another specific device” (SR4 page 212) are incompatible since the Persona is THE only subscription list as I read it.

At the same time I start to wonder about devices and drones, not to mention agents as they in turn need their own subscription list so that they know what devices THEY are allowing and are allowed to access.

It seems that each and every device CAN have their own subscription list and not just the persona.

For example.

PersonaCommlinkDrone, Car, Guncam etcTeam

Now, persona can only access the commlink but the commlink in turn can access several items. Since the persona has access through the commlink it can also access the gear.

I should also be able to forward my drone imagelink to the team in a ONE-WAY communication so that the team has an image from the drone but they cannot command the drone because that’s my characters job.

[Eryk the Red]

I don't know enough about the rest to answer your question, but I'd point out that you don't subscribe things to your persona, as it's not a device. Generally, you subscribe things to your commlink, since that's how you access the matrix. Then, only your commlink can be used to access those other devices.

Also, remember that subscription lists don't go both ways. Your radio, your refrigerator and your smartgun are subscribed to your commlink. That means they can only be accessed by your commlink, and will only accept orders from your commlink. Your commlink, however, is not limited only to accessing your refrigerator, radio and smartgun. It is just as unrestricted as if there was no subscription list at all.

[booklord]

I thought the very idea of "Hidden Mode" was exactly that. You effectively set you commlink so it only accepts signals from authorized sources.

I don't think they use the term "subscription list" but it sounds very "subscription list"ish to me.

As for the persona not having the "subscription list", but the commlink that's true. Unless of course you're a technomancer.

[hobgoblin]

by the looks of it, a persona is a logical extension of the physical comlink into another node. ie, a comlink (or equivalent) without a user directly connected to it does not have a persona.

therefor, the subscription list of the comlink is most likely shared with the persona. in many ways the persona is just a customized prosess icon for the prosess that got started to manage the connection between your comlink/PAN node and whatever node your connecting to.

[GrinderTheTroll]

[Wiseman]

I agree with Hobgoblin on this one.

Your persona IS you in the matrix for all intents. A subscription list can be as long as you like, its only the active subscriptions that count.

Yes you can send an image feed to the other runners of your drones camera (provided they have a commlink/image link or simsense).

You can put commlinks on hidden and still talk/exchange information with the other members of your party. You do this by subscribing them (preferably to the hackers more secure commlink). In effect, you and your buds are creating a hidden mesh PAN with the access node at the hackers commlink.

Nodes are devices, however persona's are like devices that are actively interfacing with the matrix. For most player purposes Persona is their node. For hackers/TM's who's commlinks are active but not interfaced at that moment is a node.

In the games I run, if your actively using your commlink, a copy of your persona is always in the node. Otherwise its treated just like a system (provided you haven't switched your commlink completely off).

[Shrike30]

[The Jopp]

So, how would I most effectively set up my subscription list?

Im having a hacker with multiple commlinks. Subscription list is as follows:

Commlink 1 (used for hacking) (Used for persona)
Civilian Commlink (SIN)
Commlink 2 (Firewall)
Honda Spirit
MCT Fly-Spy

I still got a few slots left and here's what I had planned.

Commlink 1 has it's signal turned off and access the matrix through Commlink 2 through legal access. The only way of hacking the character is by going through the "firewall" who has the actual matrix connection.

The idea is to use a Tiered PAN network by having the Firewall commlink be the commlink with an active signal rating that can access the matrix.With legal access codes I can log on to the Firewall without any need to subscribe it to my persona (see Passcodes SR4 page 215.)

Anyone trying to access and trace the hacker will be stopped cold by the firewall com who will have beefed up security.

The Civilian Commlink and Commlink 1 has agents prowling the Firewall (8 agents in total) doing spoof and analyze on it (unless im hacking, then im running 9 hacking programs on Commlink 1.)

In running 9 programs on Civilian Commlink and Commlink 1, thus having Response 4 on them instead of 5. The Firewall has a response of 5 and is focused on encryption and strong firewall.

The MCT Fly-Spy is connected to Commlink 1 and routes it's signal through the Firewall and relays it's camera view to the other team members.

Now, the Persona (according to the RAW)...

"In game terms, your persona maintains a subscription list
of nodes that you are accessing and that are allowed to establish
communication with you."

Does the above mean that in order for the rest of the team to gain access to video feed from my MCT Fly-SPY they must be subscribed to my Persona AND that I in turn must have them subscribed on my Persona as well?

Or do they have access to the video feed as long as they have my Firewall commlink subscribed to their Persona since I already have the Firewall subscribed to my Persona?

As long as I have the Firewall subscribed and they in turn have the Firewall subscribed to their own Personas we would be connected to the PAN of the Firewall. Devices connected to the Firewall would still be accessible through the Firewall since I have that commlink subscribed already instead of being forced to subscribe each and every device that wants access to Firewall commlink.

Opinion? :|

Hope this makes sense, it's abit late and im tired. :wobble:

[GrinderTheTroll]

Jopp, problem I see with the setup is that in order for the MCT to be subscribed to C1, it would need to communicate to it but commands will come from C2 instead. You'd have to subscribe MCT to C2 instead. Tiered commlinks don't work too well in SR4 since the subscription list of the end device would need to be subscribed to the Drone, etc.

Something interesting to consider that might get this setup to work is to have an Agent in C2 Spoof/Edit all commands leaving C2 so they look as if they come from C1 instead.

You could subscribe MCT to C1 and when issuing commands from C2, MCT would think C1 was making requests instead of C2. Analyze would reveal C2 Access-ID so Spoofing C2 would fail, however Sniffer would reveal what's really going on.

It's a bit of a stretch I know.

[The Jopp]

[GrinderTheTroll]

There aren't really any rules in RAW for a wired Node controlling wireless devices.

My opinion is that the wired node (N1) would need to use a wireless node (N2) to control devices. I still think N2 would need to have those devices subscribed to itself, but could be controlled by N1 as well. This would mean you could Spoof N2 to control the devices.

I understand your real-life point but I am not sure how much of that has been captured in SR4 yet.

[The Jopp]

Actually it does, it’s just regular matrix connections. The Persona has a subscription list that:

“In game terms, your persona maintains a subscription list of nodes that you are accessing and that are allowed to establish communication with you.” Page 212 SR4.

Now, this means that items connected to your subscription list is connected to your primary Commlink that is your PAN. Now, since the commcode for the commlink is the one the subscribed items listen to (or whatever ID they now use for Personas/Commlinks it means that you can connect legally to another commlink (by Passcode etc) and use it’s stronger signal to reach out to your toys.

The devices will recognize the controlling commlinks code and respond to it – the second commlink is just a node.

If there was no possibility in doing this then nodejumping would be impossible. Imagine that you have a drone across town and your commlink has a reach of 100 meters. You nodeskip through town in order to reach a node with a signal that is close enough to contact your drone.

If my idea of a no wi-fi enabled commlink with an extra commlink as a node cannot function then the matrix in itself wouldn’t work.

[GrinderTheTroll]

Viva la 10-Tier deep commlinks!

[The Jopp]

[GrinderTheTroll]

I'm still thinking that the actual end-Node (#10) that passes along the signal from the nested Node (#1) could be spoofed. Although I dounderstand your points about this happening or not it could put the brakes on deeply-nested nodes. And while spoofing is handy, it's not as beneficial as getting "root" of the controlling node.

[The Jopp]

[GrinderTheTroll]

[The Jopp]