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> Condensed SR4 equipment list & price guide
McGravin
post Jul 25 2006, 07:51 AM
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I know Wordman was asked to remove his "Ultimate Shadowrun Equipment List" he had put together for SR3, but has anyone put together a similar list for SR4, yet? If not, I've got a project in the works currently to put together a PDF list, for my own use. Only, I don't have On The Run, so if there is any new equipment in there, it isn't in the list yet. So basically, it's just a condensed list from the back of the SR4 main book, at the moment.

Would it be frowned upon to post my list here? It needs spellchecking and error checking, something I need a bit of help with. If the DS admins don't have a problem with it, I could share my work so far.
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ShadowDragon
post Jul 25 2006, 09:59 AM
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No new gear in On The Run.

I don't see why you wouldn't be allowed to post a gear list. I'd find it handy for making new characters. Can you include a section for cyber/bio? Also remember to include notes that are only in the description of items and not the charts (such as what guns come smartlinked).
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Adam
post Jul 25 2006, 01:33 PM
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QUOTE (McGravin)
Would it be frowned upon to post my list here? It needs spellchecking and error checking, something I need a bit of help with. If the DS admins don't have a problem with it, I could share my work so far.

It's not up to the DS admins, it's up to WizKids, and I know they had similar negative thoughts about Wordman's gear list being publicly distributed.
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Brahm
post Jul 25 2006, 04:45 PM
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I never saw Woodman's list myself. How much info does it include? Did it have anything more than price, availability, and a book/page reference? If it did I can understand Wizkid's problem with it. Even the price and avail are going to be kinda touchy, because in the end this is their product and property and if it really allows people to avoid buying books instead of encouraging buying books it is hard to argue with that decision.
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ShadowDragon
post Jul 25 2006, 06:36 PM
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How is it any different from character generators? Don't those have gear lists? And those are put up on these forums.

I mean look at DnD...they have the entire SRD online for free on theirown website and they aren't hurting for sales. If anything it helped them sell more books.
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Moon-Hawk
post Jul 25 2006, 06:40 PM
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Regarding gear lists: Good point. They might get upset about those, too. But I agree that it's basically the same thing.
Regarding SRD: True, but that's Wizkid's decision whether they want to go that direction, and we can't decide for them that it would be a smart move. (Even if we'd be right)
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Adam
post Jul 25 2006, 06:47 PM
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QUOTE
How is it any different from character generators? Don't those have gear lists? And those are put up on these forums.

Generally, in chargens, you can't easily print out the entire gear list. From a technical POV, I understand what you're saying. However, I suspect that if the issue was raised with WizKids/Topps, they'd be more likely to say "good point ... we shouldn't let people do chargens, either" than "good point, let them do the gear list."

QUOTE
I mean look at DnD...they have the entire SRD online for free on theirown website and they aren't hurting for sales. If anything it helped them sell more books.

That's true -- however, that's the copyright holder distributing the work under a specific license, not a third party distributing it.
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McGravin
post Jul 25 2006, 07:14 PM
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Alright. I'm going to go ahead and upload it, and if WizKids contacts me about it, I will remove it immediately.

Complete SR4 Equipment List, v0.1

It's all the equipment cost tables from the 30-page gear section in the SR4 main book, condensed into 15 pages of nothing but tables. No descriptions, no pictures.

Some things I know need fixed:
- another column in the firearms section, listing which ones have what extra features, like smartlink and built-in recoil comp
- tweak the column and page headers, possibly making them look more like Wordman's
- tweak the layout and try to squeeze more into less space
- does anyone know where a description and rules for "cyanide" is located in the SR4 main book? It's on the gear list, but I can't find rules for it anywhere, and while I can take a guess as to its effects (i.e., death), there's no listing for damage code and possible vectors, etc.

Please check closely for any errors I made. I haven't taken errata into consideration, except for the very obvious occular drone price, so if there are any corrections, let me know. Also, check for spelling. My PDF reader seems to have trouble with lowercase F's and capital T's, so pay attention to those.
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ShadowDragon
post Jul 25 2006, 07:31 PM
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Thanks McGravin.

I've found 1 error so far. Fake SIN availability is rating x 3 in the errata.
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McGravin
post Jul 25 2006, 10:10 PM
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Version 0.2 is up. Fixed the fake SIN availability (thanks, ShadowDragon!) and added the "Common Costs" inset table that I forgot.

I'm going to continue making more changes, and hopefully correct some more errors. Please keep looking through the list for anything I misspelled.
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Shrike30
post Jul 25 2006, 11:02 PM
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I'm all for this... if nothing else, it means I can drag up occasional pricing info at work, without my BBB :)
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Samaels Ghost
post Jul 25 2006, 11:15 PM
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it might be pushing it but including prices from other books might help clear up some things. I know the BBB doesn't have prices for drugs but a few specific ones are in Man and Machine.
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Samaels Ghost
post Jul 25 2006, 11:17 PM
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Probably a stupid question: How do you make PDFs? Do have to buy Adobe Creator or is there another way? Specifcally a cheap way, I'm in college :D
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Shrike30
post Jul 25 2006, 11:24 PM
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You're in college and you can't figure out a cheap way to get Adobe Creator? :P
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James McMurray
post Jul 25 2006, 11:34 PM
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Google is your friend. The first six or so are free. I didn't look farther than that.
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McGravin
post Jul 25 2006, 11:42 PM
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I'm using Open Office, which is an open-license alternative to Microsoft Office. Export-to-PDF is a standard feature for Calc (their version of Excel), as well as Write (Word). I highly recommend it.

As for external convert-to-PDF programs, watch out that they don't leave annoying watermarks or footmarks. Pretty much all the free programs I've seen put a huge "Made With Cheapass PDF Maker!" at the bottom of every page of your document.
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Samaels Ghost
post Jul 25 2006, 11:47 PM
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QUOTE (Shrike30)
You're in college and you can't figure out a cheap way to get Adobe Creator? :P

I'm also lazy.
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James McMurray
post Jul 26 2006, 01:55 AM
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What would be sweet is if it had the weights of the items, pulled from various SR3 books.
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McGravin
post Jul 26 2006, 04:56 AM
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Weights? I'll see what I can manage.

Some item categories only have a couple columns of information (name, availability, cost), while others have a ton of information to try to cram into a space only one page wide. Specifically, weapons and vehicles are problem areas in this regard.

I might see what happens if I set the pages to landscape instead of portrait, effectively giving me a wider but shorter page. That'll open up a ton of space for more columns of information, but it'll make the list several pages longer.
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Brahm
post Jul 26 2006, 05:37 AM
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QUOTE (McGravin @ Jul 25 2006, 11:56 PM)
Weights?

? indeed. :( The lack of weights in the equipment lists was a real improvement, certainly from the SR3 weights at least.


P.S. If you are going to add the column for weight you might save yourself a lot of headache and time by just leaving a blank column for others to pencil in what they think it should be. Otherwise you are likely to spend a good deal of time to fill it out to start with only to get flooded with "this should be this and that should be that".
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McGravin
post Jul 26 2006, 06:08 AM
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Yeah, my group never used weight limits to begin with, so not having them in SR4 was a lovely surprise-by-omission. Usually, the GM uses common sense to make a judgement call on whether or not that elf can carry his deck, six belts of minigun ammo, and the person he's rescuing all on his left arm and still be able to hip-fire his Panther with his right. It occasionally leads to the sort of "But my character can totally do that, I swear!" argument that ends in dice being pegged across the room at one another.

But, hey, if people use weight in their games and they're asking for it on my list and if I can fit it in, I'll do so. However, if I've got the space, I'm more likely to leave a "notes" column that people can write in weights of important gear.
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underaneonhalo
post Jul 26 2006, 06:22 AM
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Amen, I miss the old SR2 gear index, kudos to you!
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ShadowDragon
post Jul 26 2006, 06:35 AM
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Ugh, why would anyone want to micromanage weight when common sense works just fine? This isn't DnD..

I wouldn't bother McGravin. If people want weight, they can write it in the margin when they print it out.
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Shrike30
post Jul 26 2006, 05:17 PM
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I kinda liked how CP2020 did weight... most items didn't have a specific weight listed, but that TYPE of item usually fit into a category that had a listed weight.

Medium pistols generally weigh 1 kg, etc.

Mostly, it gave players (and GMs sometimes) an easy way to eyeball the amount of stuff they were dragging around and possibly get a concept of how much it weighs.

Having to inform a Str 2 character-player that their battle rifle with 10 spare mags, handgun with 10 spare mags, 10 grenades, 24 launched grenades, body armor, helmet, toolbox, survival kit and rations for the next 4 days might be a little on the heavy side without having a weight list to point at can be a little irritating with some players.
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Dogsoup
post Jul 26 2006, 09:44 PM
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Only stuff with a weight of >1kg could have it printed, otherwise "-" in the weight column. But I'm rather hesitant to use fan stuff, so it's official weights or nothing for me. Also, I was actually quite fond of sitting and fiddling with lots of stuff and its numbers on the sheet. I guess SR attracts the autistic accountant in me...
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