Adventures, and the lack of them Options

[Slamm-O]

i am really interested to know (from you freelance guys mainly) what fanpros position on publishing adventures is. They have published a couple, and i emailed them and they said they plan to do adventure set books a la arcology shutdown, but what about run of the mill-easy on the gm adventure books, like divided assets?

i ask because i am gming this time around and try to put as much effort into my runs as those books did/do, and its damn hard to get even 1/2 way there, too much time. So i have resorted to buying old adventures and updating them for those weeks during which i dont have the time/ideas for a run of my own design.

I am especially interested in the non save-the-world type adventures, the ones that are like a normal run but where something goes wrong, a minor threat/group/enemy is involved, which threatens the players lives (or their neighborhoods or family or whatever) but not the world. Or those which give the Seattle centric crowd a good reason to go abroad, like to cali or hong kong or something.

anyone know if these type of 'classic' adventures (with the maps, handouts, npcs, debugging, etc) are still one of the product types Shadowrun will have? i understand they are not the most profitable, but do they generate red marks?

[Sphynx]

Sorry, I voted a "Definitely not". I don't do pre-made adventures, ever. If I'm not creative enough to run a game without reading verbatem, I'm not gonna run a game. Especially since these pre-gen'd adventures don't cater to the specific characters a group may have.

However, were I, for some strange reason, apt to buy pre-gen'd adventures, then yes, I MUCH prefer simple games to these world-saving ones. I'd prefer though to see non-shadowrun types of adventures, like Merc work, Toxic and Environmentalist adventures, etc. I got bored out of my ass with building-raiding back about 6 years ago, but I suppose for new players, a nicely designed building run would be nice. Personally, when I run city games, I pull out my Marvel game (the 1989 version) that had huge street maps and buildings as part of the box set. I miss some of those necessities that the gaming companies just don't do anymore. I'd buy any pre-fab set that had nice maps in them, from any game at all (assuming they sold theme where I live in Europe).

Sphynx

[Lilt]

I'm a 'don't think so' as I don't buy prefab adventures as a general rule. If I was told they were good and I had an impending roleplaying session I hadn't prepared for (and had no time to prepare for), I'd consider buying them rather than cancelling the session.

[MYST1C]

I normally don't buy any pre-made adventures.
To me they're just too expensive for a product you can use only once (unless you exchange players often) and have to tweak massively to make it fit to your group...

I like reading through them for inspiration, though.


(And then there are these adventure books you have to buy even if you don't want to run them - just for the background info they provide. E.g. the new German Schockwellen that is half campaign half Proteus-sourcebook...)

[BlackSmith]

yes.
im bored in these save-the-world-or-die adventures.

IMO the best ones are thoses where something MIGHT go wroong but the starting scene is not that every thing is already screwd up.

and i have _never_ seen a pre-made adventure with holdouts.
those would be nice.

[Squire]

In my not-very-humble-opinion one of the greatest failings of 3rd Edition is the total lack of published adventures that are not mega-huge metaplot world changing events.

What the hell ever happened to the gritty street stuff and the gritty corporate break-in shadowruns? THAT is what Shadowrun is all about!

While I generally do not actually run pre-published adventures (every once in a while I do), I do tend to buy and read them to keep up on what's going on and to GET IDEAS. I make use of the NPCs, the locations, sometimes bits and peices of the plotline (especially if I'm in a hurry).

Pre-published adventures also set the tone for a lot of GMs. Rookie GMs tend to read them to get a feel for how to write-up their own adventures. With FanPro putting out these massive save-the-universe-every-adventure runs and nothing else, Shadowrun is rapidly losing it's roots, it's personality, it's feel. And I REALLY don't like that.

Shadowrun 3rd Ed. feels more like a saturday morning cartoon than the gritty Shadowrun I used to know and love. I want the gritty stuff back, damnit!

[DigitalMage]

I answered definitely yes because I want to keep my collection up to date. However they could be useful as well. I don't have much time to prep games and therefore a few ready to run would be good.

Mind you, with Shadowrun: Missions coming up I will likley be using those scenarios instead.

[Drain Brain]

I'm also a "Definately Yes" but maybe for slightly different reasons...

Sure, I like to have an adventure handy for any genre just incase someone asks me to do something for which I am unprepared - if caught in this situation I will normally "create on teh fly" but sometimes I just have a "can't be arsed" day...

Mostly though, I buy adventures for inspiration. I'll read them cover to cover and disect the storyline for my own use.

Plus, I like the pretty pictures... ;)

[Snow_Fox]

Some of the best adventures published had nothing to do with any metaplot- things like Queen Euphoria, Mercurial, Dream Chipper, One Stage Before.Ivy and Chrome were, I think some of the best written adventures with lots of ideas and potential for other leads.
(After we did 'Euphoria, the ant shaman escaped and later set up a new nest at the school in Ivy and Chrome.

[Ancient History]

Snow Fox, most of those you just mentioned were involved with metaplots. :P

I'm a completist, so I'd likely buy anything.

[Dogsoup]

[Snow_Fox]

[lorg]

Don't most of us here pretty much buy every Shadowrun book they put out? So I guess I have no choice but click yes definately.

[BIG BAD BEESTE]

Hmmm, interesting comments people.

I said Yea, because like Ancient I'm a completist and because I can't not buy something new now when my bookshelves have everything else since Day One. They'd get upset and fall on my heretical arse. Plus, it's darn hard to shake the addiction and I don't want to.

As for the adventures themselves, well I'm going to agree on several fronts from many of you guys out there. I prefer to generate my own scenarios and tailor them to my group, but then these books do give you inspiration to form your own runs. I was originally like Sphynx in my view until i got my mits on Mercurial. It blew me away completely. Never before had I even considered the complexity of such plotlines, using so many adversaries and incorporating so many things behind the scenes that the runner will never get to know about. Plus, it had a lot of stuff that enhanced the Sixth World for me. (Remember that this was when SR consisted of about 3-4 books only and not much else in the game setting was developed as far as it is today - 15+ years later on! Gee - now that makes me feel old. How 'bout you Snow Fox? ;D )

Regarding the Metaplots - well, its nice and interesting to read about and keep up with things, but not often practical for the new groups of runners or those who have their own street-level campaigns. Personally, I prefer it down dirty and gritty too Squire. As a GM I like to know what's going on elsewhere in the world, but my main focus has to be the group and their campaign. I like to tie in elements of the former, but overall its the immediate surroundings that are more relevant to them.

In fact the best idea for scenarios was released a long time back with Sprawl Sites - the Random Run Generator. They even tied in the various type of encounters (Corp, Gang, Metahuman, Police, etc) with the Lone Star neighbourhood Security Code grades too. Maybe a little too simple and remeniscent of the good old AD&D Wandering Monster tables, but they worked well enough if you got caught on the fly and could easily be converted by the GM to suit his players. A pity that FASA didn't release "Running Short" which I think was a revamped and updated version of this concept. Still, Mr Johnson's Little Black Book is due out soon, so perhaps that'll be more up people's alleys.

As for the scenario formats, well I really liked the depth they gave the Sixth World overall and the way that they were plug in and play without needing to know a complete backhistory of the metaplot. They were jobs pure and simple. Do it, get paid, go home. And although the metaplot stuff is great I do miss them keenly. Especially the Tim Bradstreet artwork. Nevermind, that the world of printing for you: Low sales = no profit = no product line. Still, there are several magazines and conventions out there, so all of you creative scenario writers have a chance to air your skills. Well, whattaya waiting for... write me a run chummer, I wanna PLAY!

[Ancient History]

Snow Fox: well, you're right in that they're the beginnings of the metaplots. Metaplots grew out of them, example:

Queen Euphoria (Insect spirits, Euphoria)

Mercurial (Maria Mercurial, Kyle Morgan and Peri)

Dream Chipper (the Jack-the-Ripper BTL, personafix chips, Global Technologies)

One Stage Before (Jetblack.)

Ivy and Chrome (Blood Magic/AZT)

[Adam]

Adventures typically don't sell as well as sourcebooks and aren't as profitable, which is why FanPro has moved to bundling three or so adventures that are somewhat related in theme in the same book; it keeps costs down and provides gamers with more bang for their buck.

[Snow_Fox]

and Predator and Prey was fine. If that's the compromise, great, lets get cracking!

[MYST1C]

[BIG BAD BEESTE]

Hmmm, LRG's Digital Burn page huh. Generally been browsing the Earthdawn stuff there - I'll keep an eye on that one though. Cheers Mystic.

[Slamm-O]

yeah i have to agree with squire and beestie, thats my line of thinking when it comes to sr, keep it gritty, with the metaplot as world events/background/ high karma groups.

like i said, i dont lack creativity (i dont think...) its just these adventures were always so high quality that having one around didnt make you feel like you were jerking your players those times when you didnt have time to make your own.

the bottom line though, the point as it were, and what i emailed mr. boyle about some time ago, was that these adventures seemed so integral to making the sixth world live, and make it feel the way it did. gritty. I look back and see what tthey make now (and some of the art, like 3rd ed. cover) and it makes me sad to think that this game that introduced me to cyberpunk, and a whole socio-political philosophy about what our real future is looking like is becoming a saturday morning cartoon, as someone else put it.

these books did show people what the setting was like, really well too (with that great art they all had) and it showed gms how to do it, i.e. legwork is important to shadowrun. This new edition doesnt ship with the advendures 1sr ed. did, and seems to rely on 12 year old kids to just know that you whould have legwork, etc. The game isnt tailored to first time roleplayers like i was, nor is it tailored to make itself a part of these new kids lives the way it became a part of our lives. You make it feel like a saturday morning cartoon and people are going to drop it as they grow up, like saturday morning cartoons. Make it about the social and political nightmares/warning/realities/whatever that cyberpunk is all about, then you make a generation of thinkers who revere shadowrun and buy/will buy the toys books, movies whatever, even if they dont roleplay, just because they love the world, and because outside of the sprawl trilogy there is very little inspired cyberpunk fiction that seems real (even with the elves and all :)).

i dont know, im tired, but i think the cyberpunk atmosphere the game had (thanks to the adventures more than anything else, arguably) built the brand, and if they want to expand it, make it the cult phenomonon that will sell the liscenced products they should bring it back.

[Req]

I'll buy 'em and read 'em, and I'll run the good ones after tearing them up and rebuilding them for my players. I loved Euphoria, UB, bits of Harlequin and HB...but FASA/FanPro/Wizkids' idea of where the game should go doesn't usually fit with mine.

That, and my game's still back in 2057.

[Anymage]

I think slamm-o's on the money here. I've never had a chance to actually play the game, and even after reading the basic rules and the third edition basic adventures, I felt...

Well, Shadowrun needs fewer epic adventures and more "dungeon crawls". I know I'm probably the only person willing to come out and say this, but there need to be more gritty, low-level, generally inconsequential adventures out there. Unless you play a D&D style group of adventurers, sometimes you're just going to be sent to deal with something that's not brand-spanking-new or of great global importance. So give us newbies some idea what basic run complications and rewards are (emphasis on basic), and I'm sure expert GM's out there can mine for personal ideas.

[Buzzed]

I would like to see more "first runs". I would buy a book with a collection of 10 to 20 of these quick, easy, and fun runs. They don't have to be challenging or in-depth, they just have to include the environment details. Let it be a base for the GM to use when he needs to GM on the fly.

[Slamm-O]

great idea buzzed, maybe the mr. johnsons black book will have those things. Just things with area/npc descriptions, which archetypes to use for encounters, what map archetypes to use for the locations etc.

[Fortune]

Although I would buy pretty much anything Shadowrun-related, I am going to have to disagree with the majority of posters in this thread in regards to needing more street-level/gritty pre-made adventures.

I have absolutely no problems developing my own non-world-changing plot lines and adventures for my group. I don't think many people here have much of a problem doing the same. The same really can't be said for the other end of the spectrum, as I am not privy to the direction the various metaplots are going to take in the future of the Sixth World. I like to have releases that encompass these, as they tend to move the world forward, making it 'come alive' for me.

I hope that made some kind of sense. :)