 Cyberware for Joe Average, The industry doesn't run on 'Runners |
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 Jul 26 2006, 09:50 PM
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#26
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 95 Joined: 28-June 06 Member No.: 8,800  |
Besides medical and cosmetical reasons, don't forget the police, security and military forces, or (semi-)professional sports either. How many people will get enhancements to compete in college level sports, and how many of the will end up with a pro contract ? Few. The ones who don't will still have minor to major implants.
Then there's ... Entertainment ! Simstars have to do their own stunts, and many an action oriented show on trid requires its cast to be enhanced to some extend. And, of course, the legitimate equivalent to 'runners : corporate specialists and troubleshooters (figural and literal). Enough reasons for lots of regular people to have some 'wear, though Joe Average will probably still be 100% meat - but once Joe decides he doesn't want to be average anymore and climb the ladder towards success, he WILL NEED some kind of edge towards his competition. |
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Jul 26 2006, 10:57 PM
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#27
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Target Group: Members Posts: 27 Joined: 12-August 04 Member No.: 6,559 |
Exactly. And think what a clever and mean rigger could do with some mining drones, should he get his hands on them. :] |
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Jul 26 2006, 11:28 PM
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#28
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Now, think what a rampant AI could do... Anyone remebering the 3D-game Descent? |
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Jul 26 2006, 11:35 PM
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#29
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 983 Joined: 20-February 06 Member No.: 8,286 |
Heh, that game came packaged with the CD-ROM I had to install in my computer many years ago.
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Jul 27 2006, 12:11 AM
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#30
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 502 Joined: 14-May 03 From: Detroit, Michigan Member No.: 4,583 |
If you live in that sort of neighborhood, odds are you can't afford wired reflexes anyway. For those that can afford it, they live in better neighborhoods with drone surveliance and cops who are willing to get out of their heavily armored patrol cars. |
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Jul 27 2006, 12:15 AM
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#31
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Target Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 16-October 05 Member No.: 7,850 |
Cyber Shotgun - Hunters/Sportsmen
Cyber Grenade launcher - Fishers (impatient fishers) Spurs - Butchers Hand Razors - Landscaper Cat's Eyes - This guy |
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Jul 27 2006, 01:02 AM
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#32
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 984 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,717 |
Cyber Grenade launcher - Fishers (impatient fishers)
:rotfl: |
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Jul 27 2006, 02:53 AM
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#33
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Target Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 27-July 06 Member No.: 8,968 |
Boosted Reflexes 1: 15,000 ¥. To compare: The Sprawl Ganger's archetype in the SR3 book has a retractable handblade that cost him 10,000 ¥.
As long as you're willing to wait two months, AND have a pre-existing agreement with the clinic you choose. (50,000¥ up front for a DocWagon platinum contract for a DNA match). Otherwise you're in for a longer wait while they try to find a suitable donor that matches your DNA profile well enough. Unless you want to go around with somebody elses arm stuck on you, and that's about as disgusting as used cyberware. (P.128) |
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Jul 27 2006, 05:26 AM
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#34
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
Yeah but isn't Boosted just a chemical treatment? It's not actually an implant. Not that it matters cost wise, but for those interested in the non-intrusive route it's more popular for sure. FYI, no Boosted Reflexes in SR4.core, but I'm sure it'll surface in later source books. |
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Jul 27 2006, 05:29 AM
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#35
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Target Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 27-July 06 Member No.: 8,968 |
It isn't bioware, and it isn't genetech, so logically it has to be cyberware. I have absolutely no idea about what its properties entail, but it's cheap and available on a Ganger's 20,000¥ budget. That's the only point I was making.
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Jul 27 2006, 11:42 AM
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#36
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 637 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,528 |
Actually coal-mining in 2006 can be automated to a high degree and is in some german mines. The days of pneumatic hammers are long gone and modern coal-face systems work manless/controlled from a remote station But: The Mining environment is one where radio is basically a no-no in most areas (CH4 Explosions are "ugly"), cables have a tendency to snag and anything but a very smart robot will fail due to the unforseeable changes in geology. So rather than drones you need smart robots and those cost a lot. Add in the necessary gas-proofing, water-proofing and the non-corrosive materials and we get a pretty costly piece. Might be cheaper to upgrade the miners. Filter, Thermo (Low-Light is useless when the light fails), Gas-Spectrometer with Readout (For additional warning) and an independent air supply (for extrem emergencies) |
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Jul 27 2006, 12:43 PM
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#37
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 984 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,717 |
I doubt that explosives detenator signals and drone control signals are confused in the SR4 world. Having smart drone wouldn't be neccesary.
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Jul 27 2006, 12:59 PM
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#38
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,266 Joined: 3-June 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,638 |
I think the point about radio signals wasn't connected with radio detonation of explosives. It would seem likely that spark-proof radios would be available though, o I'm not sure quite how they'd start an explosion. I'd have thought the biggest obstacle would be the tons and tons of rock blocking your signal.
That being said, drones appear to be smart enough to carry out simple tasks so they could mine with semi-frequent checks on their progress. I'm not saying mining is simple, mind you. I imagine mining drones would collapse shafts on themselves all the time! @Booklord: LMAO at your "really bad stroke" line! If I used sigs I'd probably poach that. |
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Jul 27 2006, 02:24 PM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 637 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,528 |
CH4 aka Methan, not C4 ;) . The stuff is a gas encapsulated within the coal and gases out when you cut it. Electrical systems in mines must be shielded unless they produce a spark. That's even true for low-power systems in the 5-24V region (Programmable control systems etc). If you get the stuff to explode it works like a Fuel Air Explosive. The coal dust is also explosive in the right concentration. The original FAE tests in WWII used it. For radio to work you either need a complex antenna system using i.e the overhead tram line as a broadcast medium or powerful systems. The latter are a no-no from the technical point of view. This may differ from country to country, even from mine to mine but in general miners and mining engineers are "better save than sorry" type of guys. |
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Jul 27 2006, 03:12 PM
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#40
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,548 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
It's not AND, it's OR. Reread the section:
So you EITHER pay $25k for a new limb and wait 8 weeks OR have a $50k docwagon contract already. The pricey part of getting a new limb is the $500 or $1,000 a day medical care, if they can't send you home for the wait. To remind you, an obvious cyberlimb is $75,000. So we can compare: $25k + $28k ($500 a day * 8 weeks * 7 days in a week) = $53k, 0 essence cost, strength and quickness equal to body, 0 street index and availability to $75k + hospital fees, 1 essence cost, 4/4 avail and SI of 1, 3 str, 3 qui and it's an obvious hunk of metal. So even if it were outpatient surgery for the arm compared to 8 weeks for the cloned arm, the arm is still cheaper, easier to get, has less social stigma and costs less essence. |
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Jul 27 2006, 03:23 PM
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#41
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Target Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 27-July 06 Member No.: 8,968 |
It never says that they give you the arm for free. Just that it's "already available for transplant", which means they already have a DNA match ready for you. Nothing from DocWagon comes free, except what they list explicitly on the different contracts. I'm pretty sure "FREE LIMB REPLACEMENT" would have been mentioned.
The part about needing a match, then a growth is less concretely rooted on book knowledge. It's just common sense to me. When a limb costs 25,000¥ to the outpatient, I don't think it's cost-effective for DocWagon to keep an entire body replacement floating around in a vat for whenever a client bites it. I think they only do it based on an immediate need rather than any readiness. Either way, that chalks the limb price up to 75,000¥ for somebody who needs it right then and there. And I never play cyberarms as having a social stigma anyways, unless they've got non-retractable spurs and god knows what else sticking out. But that's a personal preference. |
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Jul 27 2006, 03:35 PM
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#42
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,266 Joined: 3-June 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,638 |
Limbs have never been popular in my games. Wired reflexes on the other hand, are possessed by everyone and their dog! I always ask my players where they acquired their 'ware, especially intrusive stuff like WR. The most laughable one was "a relative bought them for me as a coming of age present." I let it slide as I was so gobsmacked!
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Jul 27 2006, 04:05 PM
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#43
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 153 Joined: 7-November 04 Member No.: 6,811 |
Unless the entry flat out says so (I don't have my book on hand), I wouldn't count on it. You can possess tremendous lung capacity and still have crippling asthma. However, it would be heavenly for atheletes and some musicians.
Amen. Most of my characters since SR3 has had that piece of bioware, just because that's the one piece I'd jump for IRL if it was an option. |
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Jul 27 2006, 04:13 PM
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#44
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 749 Joined: 28-July 05 Member No.: 7,526 |
You confust me... in one post you say both:
and
sooo... today things can be automated to a high degree but in the future we'll need very expensive robots... so instead, they'd most likely turn to an augmented (meta)human workforce?
Wasn't there a search-and rescue drone designed to navigate collapsed buildings or urban warzones? In any case I think the tech is there, and it fits with Shadowrun.
We're talking sci fi, but if I were to make something up for a shadowrun in a coal mine, I'd say the drone networks would have radio broadcast hubs down in the mines connected by cable to the surface.
Now that I tihnk about it, I like this idea much better. Sounds like a Shadowrun! Unscrupulous corporation with army of mining drones vs. army of lightly cybered dwarf, ork, and troll miners. |
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Jul 27 2006, 04:17 PM
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#45
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 475 Joined: 13-March 06 From: dusty Mexican borderlands Member No.: 8,372 |
Why cyber them at all? I mean, maybe the workers themselves can save up for the surgery, but ultimately, I doubt the mining company cares overmuch whether or not Jim the Dwarf dies from black lung. It seems like too substantial an investment when you can get hire another down-and-outer. |
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Jul 27 2006, 04:34 PM
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#46
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
This raises an interesting point. I'd like to take this thread in a slightly different direction, if I may.
How does Joe Average pay for his cyber? Well, if there's a medical need, health insurance should take care of it. So that one's easy. But what about the more elective cyber/bio. The things that would either help your life or your work? I think if you work for a big company, they'd be fairly happy to help you out with anything that will improve your performance at work. Since you'd be implanting 'ware made by your parent corp (obviously) they can afford to give it to you at cost, if not below cost. They may not be losing money, but they're increasing their market share and keeping you from possibly buying a competitor's stuff. Plus, since it's a perk for you (of course it is, the company assures you of this), you probably pay for some of the balance with long-term pay deductions. Of course, there's a little clause that if you want to quit you owe them money to pay them back for the 'ware, but who's thinking of that now? Thoughts? |
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Jul 27 2006, 04:35 PM
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#47
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 502 Joined: 14-May 03 From: Detroit, Michigan Member No.: 4,583 |
Well that entirely depends on where. In a third world country noone cares about with virutally no consumer power anyway, then Aztechnology may run mines like a slave labor camp. But a mine located in NAN or the UCAS? Better to play it safe and treat the workers better or the public relations department will have a fit. In any event though. I doubt that Aztechnology would use cyberware when breather masks with air filtering backpacks could be easily provided. The corps aren't going to spend money on things can be acomplished without surgery. Why have air filter cyberware when you can have a gas mask? Why use olfactory boosters when you can have chem-sniffers? Is there any reason to pay for smartlink cyberware when the goggles and helmets are just as good? With the appropriate high tech helmet you could duplicate almost all the advantages of cybernetic headware. ( bodyware is another story ) |
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Jul 27 2006, 05:19 PM
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#48
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
I like it a lot. I can see the corp really pushing this stuff on employees as a means of enforcing loyalty. If someone is in your debt, then they're in your power. Sure, take the datajack option with the three-year no-interest scheme. You need a jack to be eligible for that new position, anyway. |
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Jul 27 2006, 05:27 PM
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#49
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Target Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 27-July 06 Member No.: 8,968 |
Credit. |
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Jul 27 2006, 07:04 PM
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#50
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
Well that brings us into how much average Joe earns. Im sure this has been done to death elsewhere; but if Middle lifestyle costs 5,000 :nuyen: per month, then average Joe probably earns about 90-100,000 :nuyen: per annum. That's based on 1.5x lifestyle to cover a bit of saving, maybe raising his kids. Plenty of leeway around the average, but that could be typical.
If average UK salary is about £32k (about 55k US$, I think), then translating costs would mean things like the following: Datajack approx. £200 / US$350 - It's a posh hi-fi sort of thing. Control Rig approx. £3,500 / US$6000 - It's a flash toy for the weekend off-road racer. An expensive hobby sort of thing. Cybereyes (basic). Same region as datajack. Your teenage daughter probably has wheedled some out of you for passing her exams. Balance Augmenter approx £2000 / US$3,500. Another expensive toy for the weekend sportsman, etc. Muscle Replacement 3 approx. £5,000 / US$8,500. Certainly affordable. It's restricted but what the Hell? There will be plenty of people who fork out for this. I mean imagine the difference those three points of strength make! You go from average Joe to uber-bouncer with no effort. Every person you see today with a body-builder physique will probably have this in the 2070 universe. Those kids that hang around at the end of your street? Yeah, a couple of them probably have it too. Typical cyberlimb (no bonus attributes) approx. £3,500 / US$6000. Perfectly affordable, though boost it up a bit for a more cosmetic version. I don't think people will go for these for the sake of style or reliability (at least only rarely), but for those who have had an accident or have a problem with the arm they came with, I see it as a standard option. So I think the average Joe can purchase the more common cyberware without going totally into debt. I think it would be reasonably common. And I certainly don't play the game as having a big stigma attached to cyberlimbs. Ask any disabled person and they'll tell you that there are always idiots who gawp. But a big social stigma for having cyberlimbs? I don't see it. |
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