[X] My Assistant

[zeb.hillard]

I may have missed it, but I was curious is there was a system in SR4 for damage done to armor reducing its effectivness? Any help would be grealy appreciated.

[Moon-Hawk]

I'd say it's a possible glitch result on a damage resistance test. That's the only "system" for it, currently and officially, AFAIK.

[zeb.hillard]

I was thinking of possibly instituting a rule in the game I'm running that every time you take damage that's mitigated in some form by armor, but isn't entirely negated (The bullet goes through your vest, for example) that the armor rating against that particular damage type is reduced by one. And, a glitch on the damage resistance test reducing it by another level.

Though, it's simply a thought, and makes the never-degrading armor a non-issue any longer.

[GrinderTheTroll]

[Dogsoup]

Just say to the players, in between runs, that they should buy new armor vests, when you think they've gone one damage-heavy run too many. They should have the cash and ample downtime to do it in, and it doesn't use a system to eat gameplay time.

[Adam Selene]

There are armor degradation rules available from SR3's Cannon Companion, page 96.

[GrinderTheTroll]

[Adam Selene]

He asked for armor degradation rules. Nobody could offer anything except rampant speculation, I offered canon material.

I didn't say "SR4 sucks, use SR3 rules", I gave him the only canon info that anybody on this board is apparently aware of Mr. "Post First, Ask Questions Later". Would you like to try again, maybe a bit more politely?

[GrinderTheTroll]

[zeb.hillard]

I think I'll go with a glitch degrading the armor, as I tried my system in a test run last night and it -seriously- slows things down and tears through armor almost too quickly for my liking. I was just hoping for a system that would work during prolonged firefights in hopes of defeating the Invincible Troll senario, but after another test, I've found that it isn't nearly as bad as it was in previous editions.

[The Jopp]

You could also say that it can take an amount of "penetrating" hits (i.e you have to soak physical) equal to the armours ballistic rating. After that is done it's broken and needs to be repaired.

[Demon_Bob]

I Say also that if a target is killed or that all thier physical damage boxes are filled the at least that section of the armor is destroyed , unless the shooter designated that he was targeting to bypass armor and took the appropriate penalties.

[TheOneRonin]

IRL, most pieces of ballistic armor are only rated for single, or a very low number of hits. This is especially true when you are dealing with anything above Class IIIA armor and confronting rifle threats. The ballistic plate inserts often crack/break when hit by said projectiles, stopping the damage but rending that section vulnerable to repeated hits.

In my games, I allow armor that receives hits to work at full effectiveness for the duration of a single combat encounter. After that, it is time to replace the armor. I haven't had any characters refuse to buy replacement armor, so there has been no need to create rules for using bullet-ridden armor.

[zeb.hillard]

I think reducing the effectivness of armor by the difference in its protective rating and the penetrating round (When physical wounds are taken), and reducing armor by one point each time a stun wound is taken would be the most realistic way of dealing with it in a system-stylized standpoint.

However, I also think the bookkeeping of that system could easily get to be a burden when engaged in a 5-runner team against a Lone Star patrol in an extended firefight.

Maybe I'll just chop something together in Excel to help me keep track of it.

[GrinderTheTroll]

[Moon-Hawk]

Isn't there a skill that they could presumably use to repair armor in their downtime?

[zeb.hillard]

[Dr. Dodge]

[zeb.hillard]

[TheOneRonin]

[GrinderTheTroll]

You view of 2070 armor as toiler paper just seems out-of-place (at least in SR4 ;)) to me. IRL, you've probably made some solid points.

[TheOneRonin]

[BlueRondo]

Even if SR4's armor is more durable than today's, wouldn' t 2070 firearms have evolved to counter it? SR4's "regular rounds" may be more damaging to armor than current ammo.

[ornot]

My runners tend to avoid getting the crap shot out of them if they can help it. Regardless, I include minor repairs in lifestyle costs. Armour is only really damaged if a glitch is rolled, then the character would need to either buy a brand new armour vest or pay to get the old one repaired.

Having ablative armour rules just slows everything down too much. Bad enough keeping track of bullets, but at least with that I know to cross one off each time gun bunny street sam fires his Predator, rather than only when he gets shot and fails his soak roll or something.

[GrinderTheTroll]