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> A little mifft'd about the release schedule., Why runner's havens first?
neon_samurai
post Jul 26 2006, 08:40 PM
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Is it just me, or is anybody else wondering why release a fluff book before more important source material like Magic/Matrix/Rigger info?

Yeah RH is neat, but how many of you play riggers at the moment, when all that is detailed in the main book is Rigger Capable and Weapon Mount?

I want to make a microdrone in the shape of a tooth that, upon activation, converts to a crawler and carries a monofiliment cutter. Might come in handy if I find myself tied up somewhere.
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Moon-Hawk
post Jul 26 2006, 08:45 PM
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I think because SR4 is the first BBB to come without a setting. SR1-SR3 had the Seattle setting included, but SR4 really didn't.
I'm not saying I agree with that decision, but I think that's what they were thinking.
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Butterblume
post Jul 26 2006, 08:48 PM
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I am no expert, but it might be that the sourcebooks are written by other people than the additional rules-books.
It might also be that additional rules are playtested a bit, so it takes longer.

I might be wrong.
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James McMurray
post Jul 26 2006, 08:55 PM
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It also takes a lot less work to get a setting sourcebook out the door, at least from a game balance perspective. It doesn't really matter what's in the book unless there is new gear, spells, or other crunchy bits. You could fill the entire Sea of Japan with giant radioactive monsters without affecting game balance, but the moment you stick in a new piece of 'ware and a metamagic technique you have to go through the playetsting process.
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neon_samurai
post Jul 26 2006, 09:00 PM
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I just wish they'd get a move on. I'm dying to see the new evolution of the Rigger Black Book.
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hyzmarca
post Jul 26 2006, 09:01 PM
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QUOTE (James McMurray)
It also takes a lot less work to get a setting sourcebook out the door, at least from a game balance perspective. It doesn't really matter what's in the book unless there is new gear, spells, or other crunchy bits. You could fill the entire Sea of Japan with giant radioactive monsters without affecting game balance, but the moment you stick in a new piece of 'ware and a metamagic technique you have to go through the playetsting process.

If those radioactive giant monsters have stats then they must be playtested, just in case the PCs are hired by the anti-Godzilla task force and given a battleship.

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Moon-Hawk
post Jul 26 2006, 09:01 PM
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I thought I heard that SR4 wasn't going to have vehicle design rules.
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DireRadiant
post Jul 26 2006, 09:02 PM
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QUOTE (neon_samurai)
I just wish they'd get a move on. I'm dying to see the new evolution of the Rigger Black Book.

That'll be right before SR5...
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stevebugge
post Jul 26 2006, 09:05 PM
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QUOTE (DireRadiant)
QUOTE (neon_samurai @ Jul 26 2006, 04:00 PM)
I just wish they'd get a move on. I'm dying to see the new evolution of the Rigger Black Book.

That'll be right before SR5...

Careful what you wish for! I think I read in one of the April Fool's news posts a few years back that SR5 was going to be d20 :grinbig:
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ShadowDragon
post Jul 26 2006, 09:30 PM
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I'm happy with a settings book coming out first - but I wish Unwired was pushed up the cue ahead of some of the other stuff they're publishing first.

They're also currently working on a FAQ so maybe that will give me the info I want for the matrix.
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James McMurray
post Jul 26 2006, 09:41 PM
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QUOTE (hyzmarca)
If those radioactive giant monsters have stats then they must be playtested, just in case the PCs are hired by the anti-Godzilla task force and given a battleship.

They only have to be playtested if they'll be available to the PCs in some official manner. Playtesting them as targets of a run can't really be done, since SR doesn't have a challenge rating system. It's up to the GM to decide what he thinks his PCs can handle, and whether they should find themselves in combat with the new beasties.
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hobgoblin
post Jul 26 2006, 10:07 PM
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allso, the karma handed out isnt based on how dangerus the enemy is, but on what parts of the "mission" the runners manage to take care of.
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TeOdio
post Jul 26 2006, 10:32 PM
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I am pretty happy with getting anything at this point. I decided when 4th Ed was announced I was going to use Hong Kong as a setting, and this book has a good deal of info for me to use (Although Shadows of Asia wasn't bad as a reference). One thing I like as a GM is the LACK of rules in Runner Havens (at least pertaining to the new rules set.) Astral Shallows, the unpredictability of Magic in downtown Hong Kong, the sensor net Evo Nav-Tech employs against smugglers and pirates, none of these have any hard rules or stats. I, as the GM, get to implement them anyway I see fit. I especially love the emphasis on the mutability and unpredictability of magic that they are going with in sr4 and Hong Kong specifically. I never jibed with the how the fluff in previous editions made magic out to be mysterious and formless, yet then they burdened it with spell making rules, and rules for this and rules for that, and so on and so forth, sparking endless debates on these forums. I am not against rules per say, it is a GAME after all, but as a GM I really like being able to eyeball a decision in the interest of fun than having to explain myself to a rules lawyer.
That being said, I still am salivating over what's being done w/ Street Magic... Oh the Hypocrisy!!!
:nuyen: :nuyen: :nuyen:
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Demonseed Elite
post Jul 26 2006, 10:55 PM
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And yeah, as was mentioned already, the rule books take a lot more testing before release, so the whole production schedule for them is considerably longer. With Runner Havens, I basically wrote a first draft and then a final draft. With Street Magic, the writers had to do many drafts based on playtest feedback.
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Oracle
post Jul 27 2006, 06:18 AM
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I think Runner Havens has the important task to give players a feeling for the world of SR4.
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otaku mike
post Jul 27 2006, 11:01 AM
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Besides, everybody complained after SR3's release that there was only rulebooks coming out, and everyone was lamenting the lack of shadowtalk. I guess this, along with all the other remarks made in the previous posts, also influenced the decision to publish RH first.

Mike
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Jrayjoker
post Jul 27 2006, 01:57 PM
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Wow, if we don't get rules and expansions we bitch, if we don't get settings and shadowtalk we bitch. Its almost as if we want it all now! What are we a pack of 3 year olds? :grinbig:
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Synner
post Jul 27 2006, 02:14 PM
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Runner Havens is intended to satisfy those who desire a core setting or pre-developed backdrop for their campaigns to complement the general and generic world, street and lifestyle information found in the basic book. As such its particularly important for newcomers to the game to get a feel for the setting (and for old timers to come to grips with the background changes). This, and the lack of specific location material in the core book made it a higher priority than what are essentially advanced rule books.

That being said Street Magic is on final approach and the remaining releases are lining up nicely. Arsenal and Emergence are in their final stages having the remaining kinks worked out, and several other books are in development.

Corp Enclaves will be the location book and will add another 2 core locations and a handful of alternative locales in much the same manner as Runner Havens. If everything goes according to plan FanPro will be alternating 2 rule books with one fluff book for the next few quarters.
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Union Jane
post Jul 27 2006, 02:22 PM
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QUOTE (Synner)
If everything goes according to plan FanPro will be alternating 2 rule books with one fluff book for the next few quarters.

I won't hold my breath.
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ornot
post Jul 27 2006, 02:45 PM
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I'm planning on picking up RH when my games store gets it in (although they are lamentably slow) even though I've set my game in Denver, which AFAIK isn't covered in any great detail.

I have to say I am very eager to get my hands on the advanced rules books, but as has been mentioned before, they take a little longer to balance. I'd rather wait and get a system that works well without needing too much tweaking rather than a rushjob.
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Geekkake
post Jul 27 2006, 03:09 PM
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QUOTE (Synner)
If everything goes according to plan FanPro will be alternating 2 rule books with one fluff book for the next few quarters.

I really, really like that schedule. Looking forward to it.
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knasser
post Jul 27 2006, 05:07 PM
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I really don't care what order they release the books in... so long as they're all released in the next month. :D

I was totally happy with RH - it's an excellent book and really useful. But I'm not actually starting my game until October :( and ideally I want a magic supplement and cyberware supplement by that point. That way I can start without worrying about retconning stuff or missing opportunities.
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JongWK
post Jul 27 2006, 05:12 PM
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QUOTE (ornot)
I'm planning on picking up RH when my games store gets it in (although they are lamentably slow) even though I've set my game in Denver, which AFAIK isn't covered in any great detail.

You can find new information about Denver in FanPro's Commando newsletter.
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