 When can Drones and Spirits Defend themselves?, Can the Ignorant use defense dice? |
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 Jul 27 2006, 02:36 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 502 Joined: 14-May 03 From: Detroit, Michigan Member No.: 4,583  |
An ariel drone, acting on orders, is strafing some gangers ground targets when one of the gangers points a shotgun at it. But its programming is not sufficient to tell the difference between a ganger pointing a shotgun at it and a ganger not pointing a shotgun at it. Does it get any defense dice when the ganger shoots at it or is it unaware?
If I shoot a panther cannon at an advancing, summoned Earth elemental what are the odds it even knows what a panther cannon does? If its unaware that having a panther cannon pointed at it is a bad thing then how can it avoid the attack? A high, explosive grenade is thrown at a toxic water spirit. The spirit has no clue what a grenade is. DOes it float right over the grenade, blissfully unaware of the coming explosion? What about the second grenade? Does it learn its lesson from the first one? A mage casts a lightning bolt at a drone. The lightning bolt has no mass and limited heat. Can the drone ascertain from visible information alone that the bolt of light coming at it is dangerous? Even if it can determine that lightning bolts are bad for it, wouldn't get a massive defensive penalty as it can't pick on the visual clues that the magician is about to cast a spell like a living runner can? |
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Jul 27 2006, 02:54 PM
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#2
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
A drone has all those things preprogrammed either into it's own program (considering the cost between a reular OS and a Pilot OS) OR assume that the Defense autosoft has threat recognition algorithms and a FOF recognition system.
With the cost of pilot programs being pretty steep I'd say that they are not dumb, not by a long shot because otherwise no-one would have remote controlled drones because it would be cheaper to hire people instead of buying expensive drones just to have them being shot down because the OS is stupid. |
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Jul 27 2006, 03:20 PM
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#3
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
For drones, make a Pilot + Response roll to determine whether the drones "common sense" figures out what's going on. That's on page 214 of your hymnal.
Spirits are creatures of the metaplanes that may or may not have had contact with the material world. My ruling would be to have the spirit make a Force + Force (3) roll. I derived this from two sources. I figure that the roll would either be a Judge Intentions roll (to notice that the target is acting like he's pointing a weapon) or a Memory roll (for the spirit to remember its last visit, or to remember something its spirit buddies mentioned once); either roll is made up of two mental attributes, and has the same rating as the spirit's Force. The threshhold is derived directly from the Object Resistance Table (for the Panther Assault Cannon in this case; I'd make it 2 for things like swords and bows). I could also accept a roll of Logic + Modern Weaponry Knowledge (1) to recognise the gun. Since the spirit doesn't have the knowledge skill, it would roll (Force - 1) as a default. In either case, if the defender is unaware of an attack, that defender gets no defense roll. This does not apply to a defender already in combat. (Boyle et al. 150) |
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Jul 27 2006, 03:29 PM
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#4
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,266 Joined: 3-June 06 From: UK Member No.: 8,638 |
I'd be inclined to rule that the defense autosoft has threat recognition capacity, so the drone would recognise the difference between the ganger with shotgun and the ganger without shotgun. I'd also suggest that spirits are aware of another beings aura (being magical and all) so would be able to determine that Panther Cannon wielding opponent intended it harm.
I voted that the defender must recongise that it is being attacked, but in most situations it is moot as, unless surprised (which there are already rules for) even a drone or a spirit would recognise a threat. If a player came up with a particularly cunning way to indirectly attack an opponent then a dice pool modifier to the unfortunate target could easily take away all it's defense dice. You example of a toxic water spirit and the grenade is a good one. If said grenade had a long fuse the spirit would have no incentive to keep its distance and it could easily be caught in the blast. |
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Jul 27 2006, 04:10 PM
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#5
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
Everything unknown in combat should be presumed dangerous and therefore acted on accordingly.
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Jul 27 2006, 05:44 PM
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#6
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,408 Joined: 31-January 04 From: Reston VA, USA Member No.: 6,046 |
As soon as bullets start flying, SOP for a person (or a drone) would be to keep a low profile, move erratically, and do everything they (it) could to make themselves harder to hit. This is what dodge/defense rolls represent, not the ability to go into 'bullet-time', and this doesn't usually require awareness of a specific opponent as long as you know that you're in a dangerous situation. Pilot programs should have that much automatically programmed into them. Spirits might vary depending on their experience with humanity.
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Jul 27 2006, 05:57 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 829 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 770 |
For drones, isn't this what the Defense autosoft is all about?
Anyway, if spirits or drones or even sprites know they're being attacked, (even if the attacker isn't visible, so none of the poll options really apply) they react accordingly - which is usually more than can be said for players. ;) |
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Jul 28 2006, 02:45 AM
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#8
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,073 Joined: 23-August 04 Member No.: 6,587 |
well there is your first mistake. If it ca recognize gangers (even only as apposed to a preset list of friendlies) it can tell weather there pointing a gun at it. I would say spirits also get to dosage, even if they have never experienced something before the psychic imprint of its purpose imprinted buy its user would be known to it. Combat spells are common enough that visual recognition of the lightning bolt spell would be programmed into drone pilots. Anyway lightning bolt would generate heat as it passes threw the air, and drones cant detect mass to be confused buy its absence. For drones a comprehension test could be called for only if it the drone pilot was not designed for combat. For example an automatic delivery van with a retrofitted weapon mount Edward |
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Jul 28 2006, 05:29 PM
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#9
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
You don't dodge bullets. You take cover (or evasive action) in advance, and hope you don't get hit. A "full dodge" action just means you're devoting more time to the evasive action than to other things (like shooting back).
At most ranges, once the bullet is in the air your ability to make a course change that will take you out of it's way is pretty much nil. |
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Jul 28 2006, 07:25 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 144 Joined: 19-June 06 From: CAS baby Member No.: 8,736 |
I didn't vote, the questions are too specific for the answers.
It's unaware, simply because it doesn't have sufficient programming to recognize a threat. I'm assuming it just has a clearsight with no defense from your example, this would allow it to scout for possible hostiles (look for guys wearing *local gang colors* or carrying guns) in an area while having no means of recognizing direct hostility towards itself which would be perfectly acceptable for a fly-spy or kanmushi.
Materialized spirits are dual natured (BBB pg. 176 "spirit forms") and posses the assensing skill (BBB pg. 295), that said I'd say he'd be able to tell you were going to attack him somehow by the shift in your aura.
I'd say he'd see by your aura that it was meant to be some sort of attack, however I don't see any reason for him to consider the grenade itself a threat as ornot said, I also like Aarons thoughts on recognizing the weapon.
Seeing as small desktop tesla coils can be used to light pieces of paper on fire and that natural lightning can reach a temprature nearly 5 times that of the suns surface I'd say thermal wouldn't have any kind of problem picking up a bolt, and anyways lightning shows up on cameras. Would it be able take a defense roll? I'd say not unless it was programmed to attack on sight. |
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