[X] My Assistant

[Samaels Ghost]

I know there are a lot of players out there that hate behind-the-screen rolls and GM dice fudging. I must admit that I do too. But the sound of dice rolling and a silent GM can be a great suspense tool. :|

This poll is as much about the use of edge as it is about secret rolls, but what I really want to know is how you handle situations where the two collide. That secret roll isn't really secret any more when you ask your players if they want to use their edge. What do you do?

[Ancient History]

If you're not aware of it, you have no edge. What you think your character was bred for the psychic power of luck or something?

[Samaels Ghost]

What character actually decides to "use Edge"? It's a player mechanic. Characters can't just choose to be lucky, you're right. But players can. Edge represents a character's luck and action-hero-ness. Or, to quote the book, "the favor of the gods". It has never been left up to the actual character to use Edge, but his guardian angel/god The Player does decide.

I even claified earlier that it was the players I would be asking about their edge.

[Ancient History]

Secret test. If the players know about it, it's not very secret is it?

Edge is, and realise that this is my personal, old-timer feel speaking, the bastard child of the various dice pools (Combat, Karma, etc.) As such, it represents the thousand little bits of experience and instinct you've picked up, maybe coupled with a dash of luck and and the universe deciding to be nice to you.

In my games, I allow players the option of letting me roll their Edge for secret tests. They have the option of letting me do so and maybe coming out ahead, or they can know exactly how much Edge they have. But that's a homerule.

[Samaels Ghost]

Okay, rolls where the result is secret. Usually to hide that there needs to be a roll. Like walking in a creepy alley. "Roll a perception test" screams that there is something amiss.

[hyzmarca]

There is another way to handle secret rolls. Keep all of the rolls out in the open and let the players roll all of their own dice. However, don't tell the players what dice pools they are rolling, just calculate the modifiers secretly and tell them how many dice to roll. They can throw in edge if they want but they don't know if they're rolling willpower to resist a force 20 manabolt from an invisible dragon or perception to notice the inconsequential floral pattern of the wallpaper.

[Ancient History]

I like to take a page from Harlequin's Back: every now and then, I roll a large handful of dice behind the screen and make a note of it. Sometimes I pretend to be surprised.

[Jaid]

you could always just ask them for a general description of when they would like to use edge.

or maybe i'm just crazier than i thought...

[booklord]

I use secret tests. However there are limits....

There is a sniper on the roottop. You roll a secret test to see if the character notices him. He fails. Do you then blow the character's brains out?

Or the adventure depends on the players discovering this vital clue. They've done everything right up to this point. But each and every one of them fails their secret perception roll miserably. Will the mission be a failure because they didn't find the clue?

In both cases the answer is probably no. Above all the point of the game is to have fun. I believe that secret tests add to this by adding a level of uncertainty. However when secret tests are primarily responsible for determining if a character dies or if a mission fails they cease to add to the game. The player(s) will likely be ticked off and distrust will develop between the players and the GM.

As such it's my theory that the "critical" secret test should never happen. GMs either fix their campaigns so they don't occur or they arrange for some fluke to save the character or mission at the last second. For the examples, some NPC sees the sniper and screams or the runners encounter some good luck and another opportunity arises for the players to learn the vital clue.

And that makes the question of using edge for secret tests moot.

[Ancient History]

[booklord]

[Ancient History]

Assuming the sniper was trying to kill them in the first place, yes. I like to play with my PCs a bit before they die, though.

[toturi]

Edge is

[TBRMInsanity]

Secret rolls should only be edge or only just base skill, this is to show either pure luck or pure skill in reacting to a decision. Think of it this way, if a street wise gang member is walking down the streets he/she is naturally going to look around corners before continuing (as part of up bringing). This would be a straight perception roll (no edge involved). But if someone is trying to ambush a midclass wageslave I would allow a pure edge roll to see if the wageslave was able to notice the ambush before it occurred (to represent the pure dumb luck of the situation).

[James McMurray]

Why can't you be highly observant and lucky enough to glance up at a passing bird and notice the sniper on the roof? Luck brings the bird by, skill notices the gunman.

[Shrike30]

If it's a seriously bad situation, I'll say something along the lines of "Whose Edge just kicked in on the test I just rolled?" Usually, a couple of players will toss some Edge at it. I usually don't ask unless the basic test turned up a whole bunch of failures.

[Brahm]

[Dewar]

I don't use secret tests personally, I like my players to see the dice be rolled and know that there's no outright cheating going on. In return I ask for skill tests for things that don't really matter and keep a few of the game mechanics just a bit fuzzy to make them a little paranoid.

[Demon_Bob]

No critical secret tests. The players get to roll thier critical roll critical failures themselves.
Would not have a sniper kill a PC outright. He would wound the biggest one he could and then wait until the other PC's came to resque him.

[Moon-Hawk]

I'll cast my vote: I'll do secret non-critical tests, but critical tests are always done by the players.
Also, I'd just like to echo the sentiment that adventures shouldn't be written with critical points (or at least it should be very rare. Never say never, kids) but still, PCs will always find a way to get themselves into "critical test" situations. It's just what they do. :-)

[Samaels Ghost]

[Brahm]

[Samaels Ghost]

AHHH! That's why I wouldn't make a good sniper! I played MGS and everything and it never occured to me to use that trick.

[Moon-Hawk]

Plus, a dead soldier is just dead. A wounded soldier requires a large amount of enemy resources, since their team has to rescue them, help them, take care of them, bandage them, etc. They're effectively out of the fight either way.

[Samaels Ghost]

That's a great freakin' idea. I've been playing turn-based RPGs too long. There, getting rid of one enemy at a time reduces what damage they can do to you and preading out your attcks just prolongs battle. I need to adjust my tactics....