Favorite/Worst Metaplots, IE's, Earthdawn rehashing, and new stuff Options

[Samaels Ghost]

I've seen a little bit of talk about the particular metaplots in SR in other threads. Being a newbie to the SR universe I'm not familiar with all the source material and don't have the moolah to go out and find all the source books. I have come across some pretty weird metaplots and important NPCs that strike me as odd considering the cyberpunk setting. Atzlan's blood magic tinkering fits the theme nicely but all the characters involved behind the scenes are a little contrived. Immortal elves, Dragons, and a whole mess of pretty direct Earthdawn tie-ins. Why? It just doesn't feel like it fits with the cyberpunk setting, IMO.

I'm curious what others think about the various happenings of the SR universe. Evil AI's, cults with nukes, overbearing Immortal Elves and Dragons. What are your favorite metaplots and themes? What are the worst ideas introduced to SR? Anything that just doesn't make sense/ is corny I would like to know about in advance so that I don't buy source books that only introduce weak plots.

Thanks for suggestions and input in advance :D

[X-Kalibur]

It's always been more than just Cyberpunk, its a blending of Cyberpunk with Fantasy.

[Samaels Ghost]

I know that. it's just that some stuff works well in a high fantasy world and some stuff works well in cyberpunk. I'm cool with magic and what not, but Dragons and Immortal elves are pushing it. IMO. No complaints about anything then?

[SL James]

Winternight never struck me as particularly feasible or, you know, good. On one hand, it's mostly gone now. On the other, it played way too large a role in the metaplot and we're stuck with it.

[emo samurai]

Yeah; they're just a cheesy, "Slap mythology on it and it'll look sorta good" kind of thing.

[Samaels Ghost]

What about Dankwalther and the whole Thor Drop thing? Was that justified/explained well?

[Frag-o Delux]

First you would have to start with what silly or weak metaplots were introduced into Earthdawn because of Shadowrun. Seeing that Shadowrun was first published 4 years ahead of Earthdawn. And from conversations from older SR developers they seen the rich history of Shadowrun and decided to use that to make Earthdawn.

I dont know, making Immprtal elves behind every advance of human kind even during periods of time when magic was so low seems weak, but then again it may not actually be canon that they were, just that people here try to make it out to be that way. I have never read they are behind everything in any sourcebooks, I dont read novels.

But saying Immortal elves and Dragons are pushing the boundries of a weak metaplot is strange seeing that they were always in the game since day one. The continued increase in importance and power of these beings maybe wearing thin, but they themselves arent that much of a stretch in the game of Shadowrun.

Personally I think the whole second world wide matrix crash and rebirth with all new technology and subculture in less then fives years to be really weak. I mean the first major network crash wipes out most of the worlds records which leads to the new SIN system and tons of other world changes and it took years to recover if it really did recover. Then in 2065 it crashes again and we come out better for it in less then 5 years? Then a whole new subculture and infrastructure built around this new tech is in place? Not only that, but you also have people that are so familiar with the new tech whole industries and markets are built around it? But then you also have a world where people were so affraid of being spied on and all that stuff, even today with ID theft, to a culture that just broadcasts their personal stuff out to anyone with in 40 feet of them and some places not letting you in if youarent broadcasting? Thats all silly to me.

And how many times is Richard Villers going to lose a AAA corp befor ehe eats a lead breakfast or the Corporate Court tells him to go get bent? I have to suspect he lost his second corp to the same will of the same dragon. I guess that would be pushing the metaplot a bit far also.

[Samaels Ghost]

Okay, maybe the dragons and Im. Elves don't qualify as metaplot, sorry. I have a problem with how much power and influence they have. They're too powerful. Corps having power is fine with me. It adds to the setting. Meddling immortals are just annoying.

I don't know too much about Earthdawn. I only know what's on Ancient History's site. I read the whole Big D Aztlan conference section and didn't really like it. All those egos in one place and the power that they yield...they should do something more constructive with their time. If Big D says that Aztlan is a threat people are going to listen. If other immortals pipe up then something would get done. Governments and even Corps would do something. How did the whole Aztlan metaplot end up? I think I read somewhere that it cooled down....

The reboot of the Matrix in such a short time is pretty unrealistic, i agree. It is almost as if someone was tipped off that such a thing was about to happen. Why are all hardline systems (like public access grids) completely unusable? It seems as if stock piles of old technology would be better to recover from a Crash-situation than new technology that has to be mass produced in the abscence of a stable infrastructure. Do EMPs melt/destroy fiberoptic cables? I'm no expert, so I'm not sure why node wouldn't just get replaced.

Villiers should die.

[Frag-o Delux]

Fiber wont melt in an EMP but the emitters and controlling equipment would.

Supposedly yeh Azzies were building a bridge to teh metaplanes the Horrors live in, to prematurely bring them over. When big D exploded himself he use some artifact thingy he made (didnt read the novel) and corked the portal. Ending their little plans. So now the Azzies are kind of taking a back seat.

And really I dont think the Immortals have that much power. They control two tiny countries one is in complete shambles, the other was never a power house to begin with. The major names do a lot of things behind the show, like Harlaquin fighting the Horrors, Ehrin now working for the Draco Foundation instead of the Tir. Some of the Dragons do hold sway in some places, but I still dont think they are all that powerful. Sure Lofwyr has a ton of power. But Lung and Ryumyo are mostly gang bosses and do a little corporate meddeling. It was Lofwyr and Dunk that really had the control. Now its Lofwyr and Ghostwalker to an extent. I guess you can argue any of the dragons have a lot of power but really no more then any other person in the world.

When I worked building cellular systems it was funny when a hurrican came through and damaged 23 cell towers. Basically ruining a lot of high priced equipment. It took 3 weeks for the manfacturer to make the things we needed to repair those towers. The makers said they dont store the stuff because it costs money to store the crap. They just make it on order. I can imagine the entire worlds infrastructure taking a giant shit and the world trying to rebuild in less then 5 years in a system like that. Even the company whos equipment I was repairing didnt store the stuff. To save money they had a very small warehouse. In that very small warehouse they stored legacy equipment. Stuff they were scavenging to repair out of date hardware till the new stuff was in place. So they too had no extra equipment "in case of emergency." All this difficulty was after a minor storm, nothing like Katrina and there was no real state infrastructure damage. I mean we all still had electricity, the roads were clear and normal life was barely if effected at all.

[hyzmarca]

Well, one thing you have to remember is that Dunkie owned a rather sizable chunk of Aztlan. He was on the Aztechnology Board of Directors. Oscuro and his blood mages wielded a great deal of power over the day-to-day operations of Aztechnology but they weren't exactly operating with the knowledge or the permission of the people in charge.

So long as Oscuro was working within Aztechnology, Dunkie could stort of keep an eye on him and make moves to contain him when necessary. If he had been driven underground he just may have been able to make a Bridge without anyone being the wiser. It isn't like just killing him would have done any good, either. He is merely one in a long succession of agents. Should he have died someone else would have replaced him.

Dunkelzahn was pretty adament about not telling people about the Horrors and other things. He didn't think that it would do any good to start a panic so soon after the awakening. Dragons and Immortals live for tens of thousands of years. When they aren't planning decades ahead they're planning centuries ahead.

Oscuro could have brought over some rather powerful and dangerous Horrors with his Bridge, but they would be nothing compared to the Scourge that is to come. The bridge is limited to places with strong mana spikes, after all. It can be detected and contained, not unlike the Chicago CZ with the Bugs. A handful of Named would be able to cut through any containment measures but the hoards of Unnamed would be stoped. When the Scourge comes, there will be no containment. The Horrors will come from everywhere all at once and there will be more of them than any being can possibly count.

The Scourge is thousands of years away but all of the immortals are preparing for it. They are just using the time that they have to build up civilization to the point where it can survive this disaster.

As for the Aztlan and Enemy Metaplots, it was taken care of in Harlequin's Back and the Dragonheart Trilogy. Oscuro no longer has any power in Aztlan and he is cut off from his masters. Aztechnology is just an evil soulless corporation again. The mana spikes are gone so there is nothing to make a bridge from and Dunkelzhan, ressurected as a Free Spirit possessing an amnesiac Cyberzombie that was physically shifted to the metaplanes, is currently standing guard against the Enemy.


In my opinion, Dunkie's assasination/the Dragonheart Trillogy is the weakest of the metaplots. It seems to me that this was just a way to avoid having a big blue dragon as President.

[Frag-o Delux]

In my opinion, Dunkie's assasination/the Dragonheart Trillogy is the weakest of the metaplots. It seems to me that this was just a way to avoid having a big blue dragon as President.

Thats what you get for letting the players vote. :)

[FanGirl]

I have very little direct experience with most of the fluff text, but I can say with conviction that the Deus storyline has a special place in my heart. Renraku Arcology: Shutdown was the first SR fluff text I ever read, and it shocked me so thoroughly that I felt compelled to keep reading on. I cannot convey in words how absolutely chilling that book was to me; it basically put me through a shortened version of the emotional rollercoaster I rode when I took a class on the Holocaust during my senior year. (If there are any DSers here who worked on that book, let me just say this to you: :notworthy:)

Then Emo roped me into his campaign, advised me to play a TM, and threw in a new AI that incorporates elements of Deus' code and has professed an "interest" in my character, so what I read about in Shutdown took on an extra-special significance for me. :D FanGirl knows perfectly well that Deus spurred many otaku to commit horrible atrocities in his name, and she's very afraid that this new AI might steer her into perpetrating similar acts.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that Emo has forbidden me from reading System Failure, because then I'd know too much and he'd have to kill FG. :S

[AngelWuff]

coolest idea: shadowrun in general ^.~

lesse, I'm personally loving the strange and often creepy ways simsense is used. had a bad day, become someone else on your weekend. I loved the raku story, and system failure was a delightful read for the most part

the bad: ok, seems like a lot, but just me. all these balkanized nations don't always make the most sense... NAN, CAS, ect... the bridge between 3 and 4 is kinda bad. wouldn't every TM have a datajack and thus -1 resonance... :eek: and the _everything WIFI_ is kinda bad [but downplay it a little]. use of things like wi-fi, rfid, flash mob, and other modern terms seems antiquated if it's 70 years from now...

the super ancient 4th age is interesting, but how does that affect religion, ect...

also, is there even oil left by then... [in my game, it's actually no. it's all hydrogen/electric based on the fusion/microwave power. we'll be nice, assume that synthetic alternatives were made, probably based on vegetative matter or some other psuedo science, yah....

ohyeah, cyberpirates. now that's a fun book for cruising the carribean... *grin* can already see a bunch of bad pirates of the carribean runs....

[Grinder]

Germany got the worst metaplot ever. Starting with the attempt to re-create the US setting which resulted in a lot of tiny troll kingdoms, dwarven strongholds and similar shit. And let's not start with Berlin...
Some years later new writers tried to repair it, but failed miserably - childish would-be-anarchist. Pfff...

Further I dislike Lofwyr running a whole AAA in his head, the Dragonheart Trilogy and the metaplot presented in it and finally the fact that every famous genius out in human history has been an IE in disguise. And some really bad people too.

[SL James]

[Witness]

Loved Dunkelzahn's Will etc, Deus / the Arcology shutdown, and much of Crash 2.0 (it bedded into my campaign pretty well, mainly because I had Lochost working behind the scenes as the Dissonance- yes I like me my ED/SR crossovers).

I'm with James in not particularly loving Winternight (but hey- they're gone now), and I'm with Frag-o in feeling that something big needs to bring the Villiers cycle to an end.

I've never been a fan of either Tir, although SR4's changes to Tir Tairngire seem like an improvement. And the UK and associated plotlines seem pretty feeble from what I've heard about them, although again it seems like they're nudging canon in the right direction there.

Big fan of new kid Horizon. See lots of mileage there, although I fear too much elaboration may spoil their mystique.

[SL James]

You can't uncreate something like Winternight. So, no, it's not really "gone" as far as I am concerned. As a terrorist group, it kinda sorta worked within the context of Shadowrun. As an idea, though, I think it could have been done better. Plus, there is the fact that I suspect Steve Kenson wrote the original entry in Threats since the whole Norse mythology and symbolism would appeal to him intellectually. Kind of like how I doubt it was a coincidence that he wrote Deus' icon to be the World Tree, Yggdrasil.

AFAIK, Deus was never supposed to have an unchanging icon. It just... was. It was kind of like dealing with God (hint hint, hence the name Deus) within his Kingdom.

This is probably one of the reasons why Dave and Brian had so much trouble working with him that they eventually quit SR altogether.

I'm not fully aware of what they've done to TT since System Failure. I am quite curious to adhere to canon, but I already had my own idea which I like better than what I've read so far.

[Witness]

Do share.

[SL James]

It's a bit complicated, and I can't recall offhand because a lot of it is written elsewhere. Also, it does play a hell of an important role in my campaign, stalled as it may be.

[ Spoiler ]

Sosan (Alachia. Let's not kid ourselves) was behind the Rinelle for the very purpose of lighting a fire under Surehand's ass. He is a moderator and an equivocator, not a Leader. Precipitating crisis in the Tir would, in the long run, either harden him into someone who can rule the nation effectively, or find someone else who can. After the Crash he instituted a national emergency, which according to TT automatically invokes a No-Confidence Vote. During this time, the people got uppity and some of the Princes (and princes) who supported the idea of doing away with the Council (or just Surehand) exploited the unrest. He fell in the no-confidence vote, but not before a group of the Princes purged several members (mostly the non-metas, but Hestaby stayed and this pisses off a lot of people who think she's behind what happened) and elevated Jonathon Reed to the position of High Prince and Dar Varien as his second-in-command while Sosan sits behind the throne. Sosan couldn't wrangle the rest of the Princes the way Reed and Varien could, nor could Jenna Ni'Fairra. So while the two men had made a Faustian bargain with each other, it put them in a position where they had to rely on each other in spite of the fact that Reed's ascendence was marked by a horrific crackdown the likes of which the Tir has never seen. But it wasn't a widespread crackdown on the people. No, they had complaints and the two men accepted the validlity of some of them (especially economically. People are very fickle when it comes to their own finances). Instead, the Peace Force cracked down on the upper echelons of the Tir who supported the Rinelle and played a significant role in its existence. Dar Varien is the one keeping Reed in check from going completely genocidally violent, and is playing up the populism support to get the people on their side while the government has begun to institute economic plans which include exploiting some of its most abundant resources, including magic.

One of the problems, however, lay in the fact that certain groups within the Peace Force (specifically the Ghosts) had all sworn magical Oaths to Surehand personally (He wasn't stupid), and would not, nor really could not swear fealty to Reed. So a good percentage of the Tir's most experienced magicians and adepts were to follow Surehand into exile. Corvalis was a tense place to be in those days, and in the end over 100 magicians and adepts decided to follow Surehand into exile than break their Oaths. However, this wasn't something that Reed or Varien could tolerate in spite of their respect for the Peace Force. But in a time of crisis while the rest of the Peace Force was going after traitors, terrorists and insurgents these Ghosts (most of them were Ghosts) turned their back on the country. So Reed let them go into Salish before they were declared traitors. Other Ghosts and covert operatives on alert were sent after them, and the battles have been pitched either one way or another, leading to a pretty nasty capability hole within the Peace Force (but this also serves to explain why the Ghosts, which had usually been described as mostly magical are now just anonymous cyber-soldiers in SR4) as about half of the Ghosts who left and half to two-thirds of those who hunted them have been killed within the first week.

Reed and Varien had good reason to be concerned because Surehand wasn't going to go down without a fight. However, to manipulate the people back to his side as well as the remaining Princes now that most of his supporters were dead or imprisoned he would need to be able to tie all of this back to the people responsible in the first place, which is why he was in Seattle (System Failure). He was being escorted through the city in an attempt to track down certain collaborators and supporters who had found their way north. And in the process, the Ghosts who were hunting their former comrades became the ones hunting him and (more importantly, since he was nigh-untouchable) the people he's looking for.

[Witness]

There always seemed to be so many enigmatic players and convoluted plots on the Tir Tairngire scene I really couldn't keep it all straight in my head! I would favour a simpler set up, but I guess some people love that stuff and TT is as good a place for it as any.

Congrats on the new title, btw.

[SL James]

Thanks.

It's a shame I can't really reconcile canon with what I decided to do back in November.

[Witness]

Always the way.

I don't think there's a lot that's been fixed about 2070 TT (though I admit I've pretty much glossed over it for the time being). So there may be some wiggle-room to bring the two versions together. But if not it's not the end of the world, I guess.

[SL James]

Would you be willing to PM me some more info about it than "it's a puppet democracy with Zincan as the lead puppet"?

Anyway, I'm not sure. I had Zincan killed off.

[Witness]

I'll try and send you a precis, though I encourage you to buy it.

I know how you feel. I was killing off Brackhaven and Sirianni. Now I have to rethink. Of course nothing's ever quite as it seems in SR, and that goes double for TT. Maybe you didn't kill off Zincan, but a lookalike? *shrug*

[Critias]

And, well, exactly this sort of situation was why a few of us (me, me, and me) were so very pissed off at the half-a-crumb little teaser BS we got ("Oh, by the way, the High Prince has been kicked out of the Tir, ha ha, imagine the surprise on your 'runners faces when they get this bodyguard gig! Woo!") in System Failure. It wasn't enough for anyone to work with, without going "off the reservation" (like James had to do), and then being stuck trying to backpedal or hand-wave or retcon storylines back in line with canon.

We were given just enough to want to run something, but not enough info to actually run it (with any hope of staying with the metaplot, which is exactly what happens, as it turned out).

Hulk smash!