Damage modifiers, 2 boxes give 0 modifier |
Damage modifiers, 2 boxes give 0 modifier |
Aug 3 2006, 03:25 PM
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#1
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 881 Joined: 31-July 06 From: Denmark Member No.: 8,995 |
It seems that most people think that wound modifiers goes like 1-3 wounds: -1 4-6 wounds: -2 etc. I believe the correct way is 0-2 wounds: 0 modifier 3-5 wounds: -1 6-8 wounds: -2 The rules aren't exactly crystal clear on it, but they clearly state for every 3 boxes you get a -1, as opposed to "for every 3 boxes or fraction thereof". Unfortunately the examples in the wound modifiers section only use 3 and 6 wounds as examples. However, the following examples should clear it up: SR4 pg 78
4 boxes, 2 points of HPT, that's 2 boxes effective, giving no modifier. SR4 pg 231:
Here 5 boxes of damage gives a -1 wound modifier. SR4 pg 188
This description however is at best ambigous, at worst goes opposite the other examples. Opinions on this? |
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Aug 3 2006, 03:27 PM
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#2
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Grumpy Old Ork Decker Group: Admin Posts: 3,794 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orwell, Ohio Member No.: 50 |
As far as I know, you don;t get any penalties until you acquire that 3rd box of damage.
Bull |
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Aug 3 2006, 03:29 PM
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#3
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
I dont think thats what most people think. |
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Aug 3 2006, 03:33 PM
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#4
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
My first thought was 1-3 = -1 etc. This was probably a hold over from thinging SR3- style. I find many of my misconceptions of the rules stem from remembering the former versions. I think that previous experience is a powerful bias in my reading of the rules, and often I'll read a bit of fluff consistant with old rules, then miss the intent of the new rule.
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Aug 3 2006, 03:33 PM
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#5
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
I should clarify I don't think that anymore, I'm curretnly of the opinion that 0-2 = 0, 3-5 = -1, etc...
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Aug 3 2006, 03:35 PM
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#6
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Grumpy Old Ork Decker Group: Admin Posts: 3,794 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orwell, Ohio Member No.: 50 |
There are a few. I make it a point to note the change when I do SR4 demo's, because people are just very used to the idea of getting a modifier for one box of damage (ala a L wound in SR1-3). I don't know about most though ;) I only know a couple hundred people who play SR4 though, and most of them were either playtesters, or I taught to play. :] For all I know, the other thousands who bought SR4 think that :cyber: Bull |
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Aug 3 2006, 03:36 PM
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#7
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
I've seen a few people express that view. But not many. I suspect mostly because it is wrong. ;) EDIT *shakes an angry fist at Bull* You have struck back after me beating you the first couple of times. :P |
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Aug 3 2006, 03:37 PM
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#8
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Nobody in my group ever thought that way. I'm curious where the figures for the "most" calculation came from. :)
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Aug 3 2006, 03:56 PM
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#9
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Grumpy Old Ork Decker Group: Admin Posts: 3,794 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orwell, Ohio Member No.: 50 |
You have way more free time than me, I think. ;) |
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Aug 3 2006, 04:52 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 881 Joined: 31-July 06 From: Denmark Member No.: 8,995 |
The "most" part came from the Idiot's Guide to the Matrix 2.0 thread, where the issue came up and everyone seemed to settle on the "-1 for 1 box of damage". But I guess I assumed wrongly, and on a rather thin basis.
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Aug 3 2006, 04:58 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 160 Joined: 14-November 03 From: MSP Metroplex Member No.: 5,822 |
I also thought this. When I looked at the condition monitor, I assumed the -1 applied to the entire row of boxes, and so on. After reading the parts you quoted, and having read some messages here, I was set straight. I think maybe a good way to do it, if making your own condition monitor is to label your modifier in each box. Dread Polack |
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Aug 3 2006, 04:59 PM
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#12
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
If you played SR1-SR3 this was the norm. It's hard to fight the temptation of applying pre-SR4 ideas and rules to a new version. It's probably the hardest part of learning the new rules IMO. As a side note, the higher threshold-before-modifiers makes Pain Tolerence and other abilities/augments even more effective. |
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Aug 3 2006, 05:16 PM
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#13
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Initially, I just took it for granted that the -1 applied on the first box. It wasn't until I saw arguments that I actually examined it closely enough to realize what it really said.
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Aug 3 2006, 05:21 PM
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#14
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Target Group: Members Posts: 24 Joined: 20-July 06 Member No.: 8,921 |
I think any new players who take a look at wound modifiers will figure it out pretty simply. Even the damage boxes on the character sheet make it fairly plain.
Any misconception probably only comes from older players who remember the '1 damage box = -1 modifier' rule. It's easy to miss in all the small differences between SR3 and SR4... |
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Aug 3 2006, 05:30 PM
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#15
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Target Group: Members Posts: 6 Joined: 28-March 06 From: The Netherlands Member No.: 8,411 |
So what are the exact rules then? I still seem to miss it. |
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Aug 3 2006, 05:37 PM
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#16
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
0-2 wounds: 0 modifier
3-5 wounds: -1 6-8 wounds: -2 9-11 wounds: -3 etc. |
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Aug 3 2006, 05:46 PM
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#17
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Right. -1 per FULL three damage boxes.
NOT: -1 per three (or part thereof) damage boxes. Now granted, what they say in the BBB is clear, and the correct interpretation is in there, but they probably should've been overly explicit for the sake of us stubborn old-timers. :D |
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Aug 3 2006, 05:50 PM
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#18
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
You are correct, sir. |
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Aug 3 2006, 05:54 PM
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#19
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
Bloody Hell. Count another one in for thinking it applied to the entire row. I bet there are a lot of older players who assumed this. Thanks Smokeskin! |
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Aug 3 2006, 06:14 PM
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#20
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 502 Joined: 14-May 03 From: Detroit, Michigan Member No.: 4,583 |
If I were to have written a top ten list of changes I really liked about SR4. The no damage modifiers until you take at least 3 boxes of damage would have made the list.
I knew. |
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Aug 3 2006, 07:38 PM
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#21
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Target Group: Members Posts: 15 Joined: 20-July 06 Member No.: 8,926 |
heh. didn't notice that. but I won't remind my players.... I'd think even 1 box is usually enough to not make you happy and start hurting like crazy. but I suppose I'll have to go over it with my players
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Aug 4 2006, 12:23 AM
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#22
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,011 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Montréal, QC, Canada Member No.: 7,087 |
"I'm okay guys, it's just a flesh wound!"
I like the new 2 box period of grace. |
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