 Best features in Street Magic |
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 Aug 11 2006, 02:52 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 750 Joined: 9-August 06 Member No.: 9,059  |
Ok, forget bitching, rules lawyering, and questions about confusion - what about SM do you especially like for flavor, rules clarity, or power gaming reasons?
I'm going to go with the Qabbalistic tradition and some of its implications for flavor and power gaming reasons. First, I hate voodoo. I'm not a big fan of Wicca, either, so the Hedge Witch tradition didn't appeal to me, either. But Qabbala is close enough to hermeticism in outlook and Logic for drain that if I have to take a possessory tradition, I'm willing to take a look at it. Elemental spirits, task spirits instead of spirits of man, hell yeah, it's the magical engineer tradition. Task spirits are awesome, with an optional power possibility of a physical or technical skill. Need a mechanic, demolitions expert, doctor, cybersurgery implant specialist? Summon your best task spirit into yourself or a convenient friend/enemy and set it to work. Want Olympian running, jumping, climbing, swimming, or gymnastic abilities? Put a task spirit in yourself and get not only Force skill but attribute boosts equal to force as well (did we decide this is beyond the cap?). I wasn't that thrilled at first by the idea of an ally stuck by inhabitation in the body of a homoculus that is going to be extremely awkward to have follow you around or an innocuous pet that is still a little weird and doesn't have the flexibility of astral scouting and movement. (Interestingly, the ally rules don't actually explicitly require that you take inhabitation instead of materialization if you're a possessory tradition. But then even if they did, you could easily toss your binding dice the right way to ensure a bad merge and a true form who has to materialize by default.) But after seeing the great physical stat boosts for golems, I started to rethink - just make sure your ally has the mask spell and to casual inspection he's passable. And if you get a good merge (2+ net hits on the inhabitation test) you get Aura Masking, too! Your ally can't go astral, but he's an ungodly melee machine that will waste most dedicated physads. (EDIT: Well, if he can hit them...) Let's look at the Force 4 plasteel homonculus. You only need 10k nuyen for materials (plus vessel prep costs), access to an industrial mechanics shop (the hard part), and a Force threshold Industrial Mechanics extended test (not the hard part, because you can make task spirits do the work for you!). Your inhabitation threshold is three, you're rolling 4x2 plus binding dice (push it to 6 for 14 total dice) on the test, so you've got at least a decent chance of getting that perfect merge with 5 hits and having Aura Masking underneath your mask spell. The stats for this thing in melee combat are unreal. Strength and Body 12, Agility and Reaction 3, 8 points of Immunity to Normal Weapons plus 8/8 armor, and Natural Weapon 11P (AP 0) fists. Yes, just try to hurt it, even if you do get over the hardened armor value. Now add in whatever spirit powers you gave it, like energy aura. (Ok, ok, you probably can't hide that last under a mask spell or take it on the street.) Ridiculously over powered? Sure, if you can get it past security. Cool? Hell, yeah, and who but the Qabbalist could justify that with his tradition? A Voodoo plasteel asskicker? C'mon, no way. He'll just have to settle for a ridiculously overpowered paranimal with good passive abilities, because good luck getting that perfect merge and retained skills/powers on an opposed test.) My next post: best metamagic techniques. (Edit: Repairing this thing, incidentally, would be a bitch and presumably require that same shop again. There is a new fix spell, but it can only effect something Force x hits in kilograms. This thing would be minimum 40kg, and you'd need a minimum 4 hits to fix one point of damage after you beat its object resistance. So get ready to cast a lot of Force 10 fix spells and resist DV 6, probably physical...) |
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Aug 11 2006, 05:29 AM
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#2
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
...oh god. i think i need to go sit down for a while. |
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Aug 11 2006, 05:32 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 984 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,717 |
Quick! Get this man a Spirit Doc!
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Aug 11 2006, 05:34 AM
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#4
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Who (or rather, what) do I conjure to become, "the goddamn Batman?"
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Aug 11 2006, 05:36 AM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 984 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,717 |
Just inhabit Batman with a Ally spirit.
....then dikote him |
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Aug 11 2006, 05:37 AM
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#6
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i think i may stop looking at these threads. i mean, i'm seriously trying to keep an open mind about the SR4 supplements. i was considering buying the Street Magic pdf. but goddamn.
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Aug 11 2006, 05:42 AM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 451 Joined: 8-May 06 Member No.: 8,533 |
Wow... The more I read, the more this sounds like a high-technology DnD.
So, when's the point they combine magic and science to create FTL drives? |
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Aug 11 2006, 05:54 AM
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#8
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,241 Joined: 10-August 02 Member No.: 3,083 |
I'm trying to hold out for the hard copy, since I prefer books. Plus, $25 for a PDF seems a bit much, just for my taste (I mean, you literally have to be around a computer to read the thing). On the other hand, it'll be another book to take up space on my shelf...hmmm.....
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Aug 11 2006, 05:57 AM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 750 Joined: 9-August 06 Member No.: 9,059 |
Hey, I said I was including powergaming uses.
I would of course actually limit them to nontechnological tech skills, if that makes any sense. Nothing with electronics. First aid, maybe armorer, locksmithing, low tech mechanical replacement, that kind of stuff. Sadly, while one should obviously follow the often stated "spirits don't understand electronics," the rule itself just says it can take an additional Physical or Technical skill as an optional power, full stop. With reason this isn't broken. (Are huge running skills going to break your game? Oh, shit, it's Gymnastics Man!) But wait until you get to the new Absorption and see all the incentives to have your friend or ally spirit cast a force 5 low drain harmless illusion (or whatever) at you so you can aborb your defensive success and knock a lot of drain off your next spell. Much more efficient than Centering if you have a buddy to feed you energy. That, in my opinion, is broken and overpowered. |
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Aug 11 2006, 06:17 AM
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#10
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
While a Task Spirit can in fact get any technical skill, it's still a spirit and can't even perceive matrix information. So while a hardware or demolitions skill would be cool, a Hacking skill would be pretty much useless. In short, it works pretty much like the Ant Worker Spirit from SR3 did. You could give it any B/R skill, so you could have spirits putting cyberdecks together for you. You just couldn't get them to actually use those cyberdecks in the ways you wanted them to.
You conjure almost any spirit. While it's tempting to conjure a Task Spirit and give it Infiltration as a bonus skill and then possess yourself with that, honestly you're just looking for the Concealment power. That's pretty common, and every spirit has Unarmed Combat. You wouldn't take Guardian, because we know Batman won't use guns and Guardian spirits can. We can also eliminate Fire spirits because Batman isn't surrounded by an energy cloud. And we can eliminate Air Spirits because Batman can't fly. But yeah, you get possessed by a spirit that has Movement and Concealment, and Fear... sounds like Batman is a Beast Spirit. Perhaps a spirit of... The Bat? Awesome. -Frank |
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Aug 11 2006, 06:24 AM
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#11
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
I can't believe you actually answered that.
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Aug 11 2006, 06:39 AM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 750 Joined: 9-August 06 Member No.: 9,059 |
Eh, I don't actually like this that much. The Ant spirit, of course, wasn't available to NPCs, and the crazy Ant shamans had no incentive or ability to do something like that. I realize Task spirits are the epitome of workers/smiths, but really, what deep astral knowledge of aeronautical repair is floating around in the aether for them to pick up? I could see it turning some screws, but running a diagnostic program? Well, whatever. With the exception of demolitions, none of this is really game breaking stuff. You're hardly going to buy a cybersurgery clinic just because you can make your own doctor. (The same for repairs; I need parts!) And big whoop, I can give a buddy a few points in First aid instead of cast a heal spell. Still, the idea and flavor of Voodoo zombie servitors doing (skilled) slave labor is nice. |
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Aug 11 2006, 06:50 AM
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#13
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Well, using spirits for EOD work definitely cuts back on accidental death or dismemberment.
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Aug 11 2006, 07:37 AM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 750 Joined: 9-August 06 Member No.: 9,059 |
Yeah, but they hardly need skill to defuse it, just send in a fire elemental... I guess it's a step up from the Iranians sending children into minefields, though. Send your enemies, instead.
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Aug 11 2006, 08:56 AM
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#15
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,925 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 948 |
You might not want to blow everything up - there might be collateral and important structures nearby. |
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Aug 11 2006, 09:13 AM
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#16
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
..Animal Control. :eek: |
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Aug 11 2006, 09:32 AM
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#17
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Says who? Sure, a spirit can't use full VR, that would be absurd. However, there is nothing stopping a materialized or sprit from reading a monitor and typing. Since spirits are dual natured when materialized or possessing something, they should be able to shift to physical perception as a simple action. If it had eyes and hands it could even uses contacts and AR gloves. Don't be affraid to give your smartlink sunglasses to your guardian Guardian spirit, folks. One wouldn't summon an spirits to become The Batman. While Batman knows a more than a little bit about magic and can even do a little bit himself, he's really limited to low-level dispelling and banishment or the activation or preprepared magical items. |
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Aug 11 2006, 09:35 AM
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#18
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Didn't you learn anything from the Technocracy? "Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology." :grinbig: |
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Aug 11 2006, 10:00 AM
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#19
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Deus Absconditus Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,742 Joined: 1-September 03 From: Downtown Seattle, UCAS Member No.: 5,566 |
Tell that to the Houngan who has Shango as his patron Loa, and wants a copper and steel guardian to follow him around and hurl lightning bolts at things. Or the Mamaloa who follows Ogoun Feraille, the Warrior of Iron and Steel, who wants a neighborhood guardian spirit to protect her congregation. Ogoun's the loa of battle, weaponry, and beat-ass after all. And the Feraille aspect never says no to steel. Or hell, Erzulie Ge-Rouge, put by a Petro Houngan into a Real Doll-type toy so as to get revenge on the SO that jilted him. Ge-Rouge will do anything to get revenge for a jealous lover. Anything. Not all of voodoo is aspected how you seem to think it is. Edit: Jeez. Now I really wanna use that last one as a hook for an adventure. |
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Aug 11 2006, 10:03 AM
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#20
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Magic can bypass Superman's immunities. Technology can't unless it takes advantage of his alergy to kryptonite. For this reason, Batman's technology can't be magic. If it were he'd be able to go toe-to-toe with the Man of Steel and win. As it is, he can't win without cheating. Now, I have a sudden urge to make Superman as a mystic adept with channeling and a severe alergy to kryptonite brand bicycle locks. :P |
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Aug 11 2006, 01:00 PM
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#21
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
Hehe, what book was the original quote from? Foundation Trilogy? I forgot. |
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Aug 11 2006, 06:38 PM
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#22
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
Arthur C. Clarke - City of Diaspar (from memory). Unless he used it somewhere else first. |
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Aug 11 2006, 09:20 PM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 160 Joined: 14-November 03 From: MSP Metroplex Member No.: 5,822 |
I'm not sure what deep astral knowledge of turning screws is floating around in the aether either. I would assume the skills possesed by task spirits (having not read the book), doesn't come from their own experience using the skill, but the consciousness of humanity. If that's the case, they can possess any knowledge or skill possesed my us. Of course, that's my wholly unscientific theory. Dread Polack |
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Aug 11 2006, 09:25 PM
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#24
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
How dare you espouse a nonscientific theory about ideas floating around in the aether for spirits to grab, assimilate, and use?!?!? Jeeez, some people! ;)
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Aug 11 2006, 09:45 PM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 750 Joined: 9-August 06 Member No.: 9,059 |
F'ing shamans.
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