Street Magic: They did it again Options

[Serbitar]

Can somebody tell me why stun spells, though they are much more usefull than spells doing physical damage, have less drain?

[Iron Guardian]

My guess would be that maybe the more dangerous (lethal) stuff takes more mana energy to power it up...or maybe the core belief of most religions/philosophies that killing is bad as is wanton destruction, and therefore the wielder pays a heavier price...just my two :nuyen:

Only the designers can tell for sure assuming they are willing to discuss it 8)

[Charon]

Perhaps they assume every player is a bloodthirsty bastard and want to introduce an incentive for non lethal tactics.

[JonathanC]

Probably because players already have enough of an incentive to go on killing sprees as it is? :)

[WorkOver]

why are they more useful?

You take 8 boxes of stun, a rating 8 stim patch fixes it, well, mostly.

[Wireknight]

I believe the reason that has been given for stun damage being more effective in SR4 is that while cyberware and racial modifiers that increase Body are plentiful, those that increase Willpower are relatively rare. As a result, with Body determining the length of the physical damage track, and Willpower determining the length of the stun damge track, it tends to be easier to incapacitate someone with stun damage.

Afterall, you can't apply that stim patch if you're unconscious. And once you're unconscious, finishing you off is a trivial matter.

[kigmatzomat]

Stun spells generally don't affect objects and from a mechanical standpoint, it takes about twice as much stun damage to kill someone. Ergo they involve less energy.

[WhiskeyMac]

I always figured that stun spells didn't cost as much drain to fling because they didn't have to have a real physical effect on your target. Stun spells simply fatigued muscles not burned them, flayed them, etc. I think it makes perfect sense really. Why make something that just causes someone to sleep (fluff definition of a stun spell calls it a sleep spell) as hard to cast as a fireball that not only sets hair, clothes and weapons on fire but also can cook off ammunition? Not as much "gathering mana" with the stun spells.

[knasser]

[Smokeskin]

Unconscious guys recover quickly. They wake up and become witnesses, or they're still there the next time you tangle with the group.

Also, remember that NPCs react very differently to stun damage than physical. Imagine yourself, being threatened with a knife or a fist, a gun or a taser. Compare limping from a kick to the thigh to limping from a bleeding bullet wound. Lethal force is scary. You're looking at risk of death, serious injury, long hospitalization, compared to something you can just sleep off.

The sec squad thinks that "geek the mage" sounds like a great plan when he's throwing sleep spells. When one of their comrades is lying there brainfried and gulping blood from a mana bolt, they tend to focus on the "stay out of LOS" from their training instead.

[FanGirl]

[Samaels Ghost]

[Serbitar]

Why stun damage ist better than physical:

- smaller damage tracks
- dead or unconscious, does not matter, they are out of the game anyway
- you can kill an unconscious easily
- you can question an unconscious afterwards
- you do not commit murder

In a war physical damage might be better, but in a run-scenario stun damage is much much superior to physical damage.

I think stun damage should get +1 drain instead of -1 drain. Afetr all I want a gritty SR world, not sleepland "its much easier to stun somebody so we do not even have to kill" SR.

[Smokeskin]

@Fangirl: I didn't say physical was always better, I merely stated reasons for why it sometimes was preferred. Murder is a very serious thing and often to be avoided, I agree there. But if you have guards fighting to the death because their employer will kill them if they fail, and react the same way to runners using non-lethal force because they think the runners will just go around and kill them once they've knocked them unconscious, imo your NPCs aren't reacting like cannon fodder, not like human beings.

People care very much about staying alive. Lethal force is scary.

[Ankle Biter]

[Serbitar]

There is no ingame logic: In real life it is also much easier to kill somebody than to stun him ti unconsciousness.
To kill somebody you just blow mana into him, to stun him jou have to tune the amna to not kill him but still ahve an effect.

it is a myth that with magic it is somehow more logical to assume that stun damage is easier to apply.

Lets face it: Stun damage does -1 drain, because since SR1 the game designers think (falsely) that killing somebody is somehow better than "just" stunning somebody.

[Ankle Biter]

[Apathy]

[HappyDaze]

I would agree that it should be harder to apply Stun damage than Physical damage with a spell. The former should only require raw power - if you use too much no one cares becasue dead is dead. With the latter, I would imagine that you have to be far more precise if you don't want to accidentally inflict Physical damage. No, I'm not talking about overflow, I'm stating that it's much more difficult to build a taser than to simply electrocute someone.

[Clyde]

Because stun spells are so much more useful, thousands of shadowrunner mages have steadily refined and improved their casting to the point where they have less drain than spells that do physical damage. . . . :grinbig:

[knasser]

[PH3NOmenon]

[Mahali]

[James McMurray]

Is that quote in the skills section? It sounds like it is. If so then the grounds for applying it to heal checks are more than shaky. That said though, we let people heal stun damage faster by applying additional hits as a divider for the base time. So if you succeed with 2 or more net hits your time is halved or better.

[Samaels Ghost]

Nope, it is from the game concepts section