Detecting Realistic Illusions Astrally, Living vs. Non-living Options

[GrinderTheTroll]

In SR4.core, it states that an assensing test can be used to determine if an Illusion is real or otherwise (assuming the spell hasn't been resisted).

With this in mind and given the fact you *can't* spellcast your way into faking an Aura, wouldn't the lack of a "living" aura reveal an illusion of a living thing (viewed Astrally) as immediately non-living and fake? I am not sure what SM says about masking auras so this might be covered there.

Thanks,

~GTT

[James McMurray]

I would rule yes.

[Slithery D]

I agree. The assensing test to detect unresisted illusions should only come into play with simple Mask spells on a person that don't try for any huge physical changes, like replacing an arm, that would be automatically obvious from an astral check.

[Jaid]

non-living or really oddly masked, at any rate.

mind you, non-living doesn't necessarily mean not a threat, so just cause they know it isn't alive (or at least, very unlikely) doesn't mean they can completely disregard it.

[Kairo]

[Jaid]

it is possible, with masking, to make yourself look like a lifeless object, is it not? presumably, this would make it slightly less than 100% certain...

[James McMurray]

Is it? It wasn't in prior editions.

[Slithery D]

The BBB Masking rules only let you look mundane, look like your Magic is higher or lower, or look like "a different type of astral creature." So when you're projecting you can look like a fire elemental if you like. I suppose you could look like a spirit was possesing you when you're in your body.

To which should be added the implicit rule in fooling wards (no longer spoofing) that you can copy someone else's aura, too, although there aren't rules for determining whether you can fool observation, just fooling a ward.

[hyzmarca]

"Ha! That giant cougar is just an illusion. It has no aura."

Five seconds later

"Help! It's eating me. The drone is eating me."

Realistic fake skin is readily available in 2070. Sometimes, it pays to camouflage a drone.

[fool]

actually we always played that spells were visible on the astral plane as a spell. So you'd know that there was a spell and the assensing would tell you what kind of spell.
edit. this might be a throwback to the older systems

[Samaels Ghost]

Still works that way. Any astrally perceiving character can tell very basic qualities of the aura they see without an assensing test. They can tell between spells, foci, spirits and projecting mages without a test.

[Eyeless Blond]

A rule which I really dislike. It makes the illusionist specialist near completely useless. Well, they're still stupidly effective against mundanes, but useless against other Awakened.

[Samaels Ghost]

I had the same reaction.

[Slithery D]

Depending on the situation/mission, I more often find taking spells through wards to be the tougher challenge. At least with masking you can disguise yourself outside a ward.

[GrinderTheTroll]

[Samaels Ghost]

Pg. 182.

"Without attempting to read an aura, a magician can still get an impression of what type of aura it is (spell, spirit, living creature etc.)."

RAW as written, just spells, spirits, and living creatures can be told apart without a check. I included foci because they are usually obvious, unless your spirits are shaped like items. Projecting mages I interpret as being living creatures. I had to check this out for an astral trick one of my NPCs pulled.

[GrinderTheTroll]

Thanks for the reference.

I might ignore that no-roll rule for something like an illusion specifically intending to deceive someone else they'd be rather useless when view by Astral beings.

[Ophis]

I'd allow astral sensing to beat Physical illusions everytime, as they to my mind produce a magic "thing" that produces the photons, sound waves, smells etc as "real" things thus fooling tech. Mana illusions are magic "things" that affect the viewers(or whatevers) mind to see something. I would allow this to fool astral sight totally if the viewer hadn't resisted, though I might grant a bonus to resist if viewing it in astral.

[hyzmarca]

But what about a living creature whose aura is covered by a spell. Say, for example, a character with armor sustained?

Can the magician sort the armor spell from its subject without assensing? I say nay. If this is the case then it would be possible for an illusion spell to foll someone. They would see the illusion spell as being a spell but would not know if there was a living aura beneath it without assensing.

[Slithery D]