 What's Up with FanPro?, Looking for a rundown of the seminar |
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 Aug 17 2006, 09:37 PM
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#51
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 984 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,717  |
If Emergence effectively demonizes TMs then a little hysteria will be likely, not matter how high-tech the setting. If TMs showing off their new abilities commit terrorism or the world knows that it was otaku that caused the Crash, then people won't accept them without a little time to adjust and some pro-TM activists in the mix. Depends on the events of Emergence. It a little silly to speculate before that happens.
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Aug 17 2006, 09:41 PM
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#52
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Obviously our opinions differ. That's cool. FanPro agrees with me. ;)
Any implanted commlink is detectable. Even if only barely. That's still infinitely more detectable than a technomancer.
You can't tell the difference between a straight man and a gay one but there are people terrified of them. I think your mistake is that you keep trying to apply logic. When discussing a herd mindset like you get when you look at mob mentality logic doesn't work like it does for individuals. For groups all change becomes scary, unless it's made in reaction to something scarier or couched in placating terms. Likewise, once something has been around for a while it is no longer scary, even if it should be, unless something happens to bring it to the forefront of the herd's mind You and I can say "Technomancers are just like implanted commlinks to the average Joe." Any average Joe can say that. But when you get a bunch of average Joes together rationality changes directions. If they're told something is scary they'll believe it. And I think it's safe to say that a sensationalist media controlled by megacorps who want power over technomancers will tell people that the TMs are scary. |
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Aug 17 2006, 09:42 PM
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#53
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Maybe. The real problem is: How do you even recognize a TM?
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Aug 17 2006, 09:44 PM
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#54
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Target Group: Members Posts: 16 Joined: 17-August 06 Member No.: 9,143 |
From what I know of Emergence, there is a very good explanation for why there is hatred and distruct of TMs by some people.
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Aug 17 2006, 09:46 PM
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#55
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Target Group: Members Posts: 49 Joined: 27-February 03 Member No.: 4,171 |
And that's why it's so scary. FUD is the mind-killer (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt). Maybe that kid looking at you is one of Them. Maybe your credit history is being destroyed while he smiles and looks into your eyes. Or maybe that other person across the way is the One that's doing it. You know, the one that won't meet your eyes and seems to be talking to themself? They are all around you. And there's no where you can go to get away from Them. |
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Aug 17 2006, 09:49 PM
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#56
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
What the last guy said. :) You don't have to be able to grab someone off the street and beat him up for there to be fear. In fact, the less recognizable someone is the more fearful you are. If terrorist cells in America wore badges there wouldn't be as much fear surrounding them, because you could just call the cops when you saw one buying 1,000 cell phones. But since they don't, when anyone buys 1,000 cell phones it's cause for fear of terrorism, even if they just wanted to defraud some phone companies. |
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Aug 17 2006, 09:52 PM
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#57
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Exactly.
Indeed. Because there is no possible way to detect EM transmissions.
Why, dude? Why? Why even bother posting? God I hate when people do shit like that. Stop it. It's not cool. It doesn't make you look like an insider. It makes you look like a pretentious tool.
How is that different from anyone else in 2070? Try a little harder, because if that the reason then the authors have just gotten lazy. |
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Aug 17 2006, 09:58 PM
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#58
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Well, I'm waiting patiently to read it... it's just I'm scared that it may look like recent 'explanations' which look way too much like the one used for the state of the AGS.
Without any physical reason, such fear gets you into the straightjacket. There is no way you can identify a technomancer by his actions, and you are performing similar actions yourself every day. Sorry to burst your bubble, but most people don't even care how the technical parts of the matrix work. |
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Aug 17 2006, 10:16 PM
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#59
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
You don't have to care how the internet works to be afraid of hackers. You don't have to care how magic works to be afraid of mages. You don't have to care how technomancy works to be afraid of technomancers.
That fear affects millions of people every day in America, especially when something in the news brings terrorism, homosexuality, or any of a number of other "scary" things to our attention. It doesn't put people in straight jackets now, why would it in the future?
It's not about recognition, it's about worry. Not a constant worry, even terrorism int he wake of 9/11 didn't cause constant worry. It's about the worry that springs up when someone mentions that someone just bought 1,000 cellphones, or applied for a marriage license, or was found scratching themselves and bleeding into food in a stuffer shack. If fear were a rational thing the American government would not have as much power as they have now. Not just power granted by fear of terrorism, but power granted by fear of nuclear war, fear of communism, and fear of the degredation of the sanctity of marriage. If there's one thing we can learn from history it's that people can be scared of stuff for the stupidest reasons, and the less control they feel they have in the situation the harsher their response will be. |
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Aug 17 2006, 10:16 PM
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#60
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
I should read up more on the Crash of '64... I thought Deus was somehow involved in it.
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Aug 17 2006, 10:20 PM
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#61
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
As a victim.
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Aug 17 2006, 10:28 PM
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#62
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Of course you have - because every corporation tells you how worryfree and secure the matrix is.
Because, unfortunalty, there are to few straightjackets right now.
Not everything that limps is an analogy. Every All those are like magic - they are about behavior that is outside the norm itself and would cause serious reactions if done openly. Just, someone checking his email, which TM and Joe Average do alike, doesn't.
If by 'involved' you mean 'getting screwed by it in the middle of resurrection'... yes, he was. ;) |
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Aug 17 2006, 10:28 PM
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#63
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
Much of the potential uncertainty and suspicion surrounding TMs will have less to do with what they do but with the issues of how they do it, why they are able to do it, what the true extent of their abilities really is (and wrong assumptions that can be made), and who they are (and what distinguishes them from otaku). Emergence is at least partly about how society deals with something it doesn't understand or comprehend, and how the powers that be react to a new element in the(ir) playfield.
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Aug 17 2006, 10:30 PM
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#64
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 984 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,717 |
Yeah, he got pwned by the virus. |
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Aug 17 2006, 10:30 PM
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#65
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Target Group: Members Posts: 16 Joined: 17-August 06 Member No.: 9,143 |
Can't help but chuckle at SL for berrating someone for doing things that make them look like a tool considering the content of posts he has made.
But, I do see your point. I'm not sure what is safe to talk about and what isn't when it comes to new stuff being put out so I would rather be cautious. Just sticking to how the emergence of the existence of TMs could cause a backlash, irrational speculation could be very easy cause. The Matrix crashed just a few years prior and now here are people that are able to access the Matrix directly without any need of technology. One zealot with a microphone could spout that they had been there all along and caused all the problems with the Crash or any other problem with anything even linked to worldwide systems. Your basic corporation is going to want to know how these people tick and if they can use them to their advantage. Or maybe just cut them open and see what may be different about them genetically. Those in the know would wonder why TMs don't fade like the Otaku of old did. And when the existence of TMs is first realized, your Joe Average citizen will not know the extent of their abilities and will start to fill in the blanks. "They can access the Matrix without any tech... does that mean they could get in my PAN with no problems? Could they get into my bank account and just take my money away?" |
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Aug 17 2006, 10:30 PM
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#66
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
..yeah, looks like I need to add something to the Slogan 'Deus: janitor - despot - trend-setter' ;)
You can construct any reasoning that way, concerning any minority. Still, TM are unpromising victims: There far to few of them and they can hardly be identified, so Joe Average has no one to project that hate to. |
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Aug 17 2006, 10:41 PM
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#67
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
bingo, FUD at work ;) "sure there are all kinds of ICE and stuff thats designed to stop a hacker from getting into my account and comlink. but these people are not hackers! can we even be sure that the ICE can detect them, much less stop them?!" in the end it can be crystal night all over again. people have just had their lifes ruined and need something to blame for it. then some charismatic figure comes along and points out a group of, potentialy secretive/private/diffrent , people as the problem... what people dont understand they fear. what people fear they hate. what people hate they destroy. |
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Aug 17 2006, 11:23 PM
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#68
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Oh, you mean like Dr. Halberstam doing that at the end of System Failure back in 2065 when they first appear? Oooh, novel. |
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Aug 17 2006, 11:33 PM
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#69
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Yes, it might not be a new idea, but it's more refreshing than your posts have been lately. I think your tampon might need changing. :)
None of them can be identified by the guy sitting across the bus from them. And sometimes you'll misidentify someone because of their race, religion, effeminate voice, or whatever. But I guess in your world people only fear what they can identify with a glance? That's cool. Not very realistic IMO, but cool. :) |
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Aug 17 2006, 11:59 PM
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#70
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
That doesn't even matter - normal people can through observation, and thus create stereotypes that other people apply. Just, TMs totally lack stereotypes - they are too few, scattered across the population: the SF fluff is talking about a nice old lady. There is no defining trait, no unusual external behavior, sip, nada - no stereotype.
So, coming back to 'realistic': People fear what they can't grasp, and hate what they can identify. Not stereotype, no identification. Which sums up to: You can fear TMs like you can fear the mindcontrol ray you are wearing your tinfoil hat against... but the best you can hate are some geeks that are, 99,9% of the time, no TMs. Essentially, you are looking at technophobia in a hightech world... not going to last very long. Not that would be a real problem... given all those ghost-in-the-machine, potentially some new and some old AI awakening, Joe Average and Corp X could be made very painfully aware that the matrix isn't under his control after all. |
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Aug 18 2006, 12:53 AM
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#71
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Like I said, different opinions. While I think my thought process is sound, I'll happily wait to see how FanPro rationalizes the TM prejudice, as it's apparent from their posts here that it exists.
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Aug 18 2006, 01:23 AM
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#72
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Decker on the Threshold Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,922 Joined: 14-March 04 Member No.: 6,156 |
What defining characteristic were people latching onto when they were burning people for being witches? I expect lots of people will be lynched for being "technos" even when they are not. Maybe they're just hackers, maybe they're just skinny and diseased-looking, maybe they have a birthmark on their neck. It's not rational people who'll be chopping off people's heads in alleyways and wrapping them in aluminum foil; it'll be scared, stupid people. |
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Aug 18 2006, 01:27 AM
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#73
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Are you trying to be as big a dick as Geekake? |
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Aug 18 2006, 04:04 AM
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#74
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 212 Joined: 1-July 02 From: Santa Maria, CA Member No.: 2,921 |
I don't see how you gleaned that from the sell sheet. It only said that it was going to follow in the footsteps of the previous Matrix-related campaigns: Renraku Arcology: Shutdown, Brainscan, System Failure. Considering that the formats for each of them is not at all like the the other two, it's safe to say that the format of Emergence is not at all apparent (except to those who've seen it, of course). |
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Aug 18 2006, 08:16 AM
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#75
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
Yup. Scared, stupid people will do that sort of thing, especially if they're provided with the right incentive/excuse. |
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