 Can you help me? |
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 Oct 18 2003, 05:01 PM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 17-October 03 Member No.: 5,732  |
Greetings,
Q.1) At least in the german version of man and maschine, you can find the zeiss cybereyes system. In one of the build-in packages you can buy, there are UV lights mentioned, but no effects of these gizmos. Could somebody tell me what these tings can do? Q.2) A pair of Cyberspurs, Handblades or Razors, gives you a benefit to your powerniveau of 150% of the characters strenght. Can I also gain this benefits with forearm-snapblades or the physads power Killing Hands? (an if not, why) PS: Sory for my bad grammar, but I hardly had any trainig in englisch since 4 years. I hope you will forgive me. I also hope you can help me by answering these questions, because Iīm looking for the answers since 4 weeks. What else can I say? Oh, yes....help. :D |
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Oct 18 2003, 05:17 PM
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#2
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
Those 'uv lights' might be te 'eye light system' also covered in M&M.
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Oct 18 2003, 05:37 PM
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#3
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Target Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 17-October 03 Member No.: 5,732 |
I thought so, too, but because these things are only mentioned in combination with the zeiss system which already has an eye light system, it isnīt possible.
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Oct 18 2003, 06:38 PM
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#4
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,008 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Mein Gott!
*Ahem* Sorry, obligatory joke ;) Anyway. Absolutely no idea about the UV lights; as far as I can tell they exist nowhere in English canon. As for your other questions... I have absolutely no idea about forearm snapblades either. I'd be inclined to say yes, as I personally treat them like cyberspurs in nearly every respect, but that isn't backed up by canon at all. As for Killing Hands, no, you don't get a bonus to your power for using both hands, much the same as you don't get a bonus with Unarmed Combat, even with Ambidexterity. My personal take on it is because I don't know of a martial art or fighting style that doesn't train one to use both hands, and it's a lot easier to use and coordinate two hands than, say, two weapons. ~J |
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Oct 18 2003, 06:55 PM
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#5
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
The Zeiss cybereyes packages do not appear in English language SR sourcebooks, sorry. In fact, Zeiss is rarely mentioned outside 1st edition.
Forearm snapblades, hand razors and cyberspurs give an increase to the character's strenght for purpose of damage, but this is far less than 150%. |
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Oct 18 2003, 07:33 PM
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#6
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Target Group: Members Posts: 17 Joined: 22-March 02 Member No.: 2,460 |
AH, I think he meant the 50% power bonus for using two weapons simultaneously (pre-CC).
I agree with Kagetenshi, by the way. All martial arts already include using both hands, and you'd be pretty damn ineffective with just one, unlike with a melee weapon like a sword. I'd just give horrible penalties to anyone trying to fight onehanded. However, forearm snap-blades probably should - they're weapons, after all, and you CAN use just one of them at no ill effect. |
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Oct 18 2003, 09:16 PM
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#7
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Target Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 17-October 03 Member No.: 5,732 |
@Kagetenshi: Kein Problem
@Zach21035: Nope, sorry. With a pair of cybernetic weapons (each at every hand) you definitely gain the bonus of 150% strenght to your powerniveau. Strangely this rule doesnīt fit with the martial arts or 2-hand combat rules. |
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Oct 19 2003, 04:25 AM
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#8
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
The power boost for dual melee cyberware should probably be disallowed in games using the CC rules for dual weapon melee in much the same way that games using MitS initiation should ignore the 20 karma power point rule for adepts. The rule is still there because the sourcebook rules are more or less optional rules, but when the optional rules are used, you should ignore the ones presented in the core book. In any case, I would definitely not allow both rules to be used at the same time (150% to hit and damage is a BIG advantage which doesn't correspond to any other melee combat).
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Oct 19 2003, 04:36 AM
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#9
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I raised this question with Rob Boyle last year, and his response was that both rules do apply. |
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Oct 19 2003, 04:59 AM
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#10
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
Errr... I guess it's balanced out by the fact that you're forever restricted to reach 0 with it, but it just seems odd that two sets of handrazors (sharpened metal fingernails) would so heavily outclass someone with a pair of knives. I'm almost tempted to work up a physad with dikoted cyber spurs and see how it works out. Making foci out of them is also problematic. |
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Oct 19 2003, 10:23 AM
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#11
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Target Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 17-October 03 Member No.: 5,732 |
And whatīs about the power Killing Hands?
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Oct 19 2003, 10:39 AM
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#12
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
What about it?
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 Oct 19 2003, 10:52 AM
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#13
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Target Group: Members Posts: 52 Joined: 26-February 02 From: The western side on the Danish side in the Oeresound-region Member No.: 105 |
The Zeiss eyes appeared in the German version of the German sourcebook, along with other equipment, gear, vehicles and contacts. Hardly any of the items found their way into the english books. So the UV-feature is according to my knowledge a german feature for the Zeiss eyes. |
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Oct 19 2003, 02:18 PM
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#14
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Mr. Quote-function Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,316 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Germany Member No.: 1,376 |
As some have pointed out, the Zeiss-Systems are currently german-only (from a certain POV I'd like to say: Hopefully it stays that way). There are no rules on how the UV-System works in terms of game benefits (like the vision modifiers for IR-Sight or Low-Light). The creators didn't put too much thought into these systems in the first place (there weren't any rules in the previous SR Editions either) and now they have been transfered to the german M&M without further inspection, which usually leads to a whole bunch of questions. The one about the UV-Sights being the most common one. As for possible game effects of the UV-System: There aren't any in terms of vision modifiers: Only a very small number of materials reflect UV-light. Most of the UV-light is directly absorbed :arrow: there's not much of an illuminating effect coming from UV-light. You can see that in discos where they use UV-lamps: Some clothes (especially those which were recently washed with some sort of bleech), have a glow but that glow doesn't illuminate it's surroundings too much. Same for materials that show those fancy blue / red / green glow effects. Under normal or even reduced sunlight these glow effects are next to invisible. So the main use of these effects is commonly in trying to mark certain objects (like bank notes, that can be identifed as being authentical).
No you can't. As to why: Because the rules don't say so. That's special trait that has only been defined for cyberspurs and handrazors *note: not cybernetic handblades*. You could transfer the effect to the snap-blades as well. For Killing hands, the main problem is, that you'd have to transfer it to normal melee as well, since Killing Hands works on unarmed combat. Thus removing the specialty of doubled spurs. And of course there still is the dispute about that 150% bonus for spurs once you play with the advanced melee ruleset. |
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Oct 19 2003, 03:39 PM
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#15
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Target Group: Members Posts: 25 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,721 |
UV Light also picks up certain, *cough*, "stains" does it not? A person with this mod on there eyes would probably never sleep on a hotel bed again.
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Oct 19 2003, 04:05 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 227 Joined: 18-August 03 Member No.: 5,513 |
@BigKnockers Yes, as long as the appropriate chemi-floresence is applied first.
This kinda reminds me of a riddle based on real life I heard on the radio. It was about two old spies during WWII, an Englishman on a boat in the Channel and a Frenchman on shore. The Frenchman would send intelligence bits to his English counterpart by flashing them in Morse code with a flashlight. Of course, German patrols were on alert in that area and yet they never caught them. The reason why was because they never saw the light, it was UV. How did the old guys see it? Both had undergone cataract surgery before the war, to them it just looked like white light. That's pretty much a stripped down version. There are a bunch of applications to UV. What do the German rules say about UV applications to Zeiss Systems? Are Zeiss Systems just different rules for cybereyes or a totally different technology altogether? |
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Oct 19 2003, 05:16 PM
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#17
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Mr. Quote-function Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 1,316 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Somewhere in Germany Member No.: 1,376 |
As I said: There are no such rules .. Not in M&M nor in previous Editions. The only thing that comes close is a Shadowtalk remark (yeah, we did get Shadowtalk in M&M) where it says that someone using the UV-Vison failed to notice an UV-based photo-electric barrier due to the UV absorbing effects of standard glas.
Again, no specific rules on theses systems at all. These systems incorporate several subsystems that you'd have to buy as seperate modifications to standard cybereyes at in comparison overall lower Essence cost but also higher monitary cost. Depending on systemtype you also get a number of slots that can pack certain pre-constructed packages (IR, low-light, camera etc.) with specified essence costs. Zeiss-Systems can only incorporate those Zeiss-packages and vice versa... And that's also the next place where trouble arises, since due to the lack of explicit rules the usual question is: Do you also get the 0.5 Essence in other modifications for free or not? The next problem is that there are certain options that are not availibe for standard eyes at all. Nor is there a statement about higher cyberware grades for those things. Certain combinations of the Zeiss-Systems in their basic configuration do provide the same benefits standard eyes can only deliver at betagrade. And that betaware would be more expensive in terms of money and about the same in essence cost and has of course much higher avail ratings than those of the Zeiss-Systems ... |
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