 Binding Free Spirits, Can banishing help with that? |
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 Aug 17 2006, 06:33 PM
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#1
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Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019  |
If you banish a free spirit, does it decrease the edge that it is allowed to use to resist binding? For example, if it is force 9 and edge 12, and you reduce it to edge 0, do you fight 21 dice or 9? And if it's 21, how will you ever bind a free spirit over force 6?
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Aug 18 2006, 09:47 PM
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#2
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Bump.
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Aug 18 2006, 10:19 PM
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#3
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
Emo--to help me answer your question effectively...please cite some page references. After reading the material, I will be better able to help.
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Aug 18 2006, 10:36 PM
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#4
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
NVM Emo, I found the text in Street Magic that you were looking at.
The process of Binding a free spirit takes a ritual to accomplish as well as extreme amounts of prep work... Given the RAW, yes it is possible to banish a free spirit and reduce its edge rating before attempting to bind it. That being said, I would rule that at the very least it should be 2 different mages. One to work the ritual and the other to do the banishing before the ritual completes and the die is cast (both in the metaphysical and metagaming sense). There are upsides and downsides to this. The RAW only state that the summoner and binder are protected from the spirit's wrath, so the free spirit can whomp all over the people and places nearby. Additionally, if the Summoner attempts to banish the spirit rather than immediately start the ritual, he isn't being protected from the spirit. So the end question here is, how long do you think you can survive against a free spirit who is already ticked off because you pulled him halfway across Existence just so you could knock him down a few pegs? If the answer is a few rounds before I start the binding, then by all means banish first. Otherwise, let sleeping giants lie. |
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Aug 18 2006, 10:40 PM
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#5
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Banish, then vanish behind masking ward. Or disrupt it, even. Its service doesn't have to start right away.
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Aug 18 2006, 10:43 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 750 Joined: 9-August 06 Member No.: 9,059 |
What on earth does a masking ward get you in this situation? It masks magical activity, not the existence of a nonmagical aura. Step beind a high force charged ward and let it bash its brains out instead.
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Aug 18 2006, 10:48 PM
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#7
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The back-up plan Group: Retired Admins Posts: 8,423 Joined: 15-January 03 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,910 |
Until it spends a complex action for a metaplanar shortcut and kicks your ass inside the ward.
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Aug 18 2006, 10:50 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 750 Joined: 9-August 06 Member No.: 9,059 |
If it's been there before, maybe. I don't treat that ability as an unrestricted teleport.
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Aug 18 2006, 11:34 PM
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#9
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Can you bind a disrupted spirit? I don't see any reason why not. That should be easy, really.
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Aug 19 2006, 07:04 AM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 984 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,717 |
Can it metaplanar shortcut if someone is attempting to bind it? Doesn't it have to stay present during the binding?
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Aug 19 2006, 04:03 PM
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#11
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Yes, but one person could call and banish the spirit, and then another can bind it after it's been disrupted.
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Aug 19 2006, 04:50 PM
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#12
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
The rules state a free spirit must be summoned first and then bound immediately thereafter. So if you're trying to banish it and you're not protected by being the summoner you're in looking for trouble. If you're the summoner and you banish it instead of binding it, you interrupt the process and leave yourself open to attack. No, you cannot bind a spirit that is disrupted. The spirit must be present to be bound. |
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Aug 19 2006, 06:22 PM
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#13
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
They don't say that the spirit has to be on the physical plane in order to be bound, though, and nothing can prevent the spirit from appearing, not even being disrupted. :)
Also, one person could banish the spirit from behind a ward, and then the other dude could bind it behind another ward, a bajillion miles away and talking to him via comlink. |
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Aug 19 2006, 08:59 PM
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#14
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
Even if that were true (and even if it isn't clearly stated in the rules I can tell you it isn't in the spirit in which they were intended), you have to be in the presence of the spirit to perform Banishing (there is no such thing as remote banishing) or Binding for that matter, so no your scenario is not possible. Furthermore, the summoning of a non-inhabiting spirit means the spirit (free or not) will appear inside any ward the summoner raises by way of the usual "metaplanar shortcut" ability. If the summoner then decides to Banish instead of Bind he'd better be ready for the consequences. |
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Aug 20 2006, 02:46 AM
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#15
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
No, see, the banishing mage summons the spirit, then vanishes behind a ward and banishes the spirit until it's gone. Then the binding mage binds the spirit behind another ward.
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Aug 20 2006, 03:38 AM
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#16
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
nonsense. one may as well claim you're going to bind them while they're still in the metaplanes with that logic. the spirit must be right there, and you must start the binding immediately after the summoning. that's how it works. naturally, you can change it in your game, but it would be way too much in anyone else's game, most likely. |
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Aug 20 2006, 05:53 AM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 984 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,717 |
Doesn't the summoner have to bind it? And how are you vanishing behind a ward? If your buddy is behind a ward bansihing while you're binding, the spirit can't metaplanar shortcut into the banishers warded area because he has to stay present. So, like was said before, that better be a VERY powerful charged ward.
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Aug 20 2006, 07:00 PM
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#18
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
There could be two summoners. One to summon and banish, then another to summon and bind. They'll be a bajillion miles away from each other.
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Aug 20 2006, 07:33 PM
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#19
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,314 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lisbon, Cidade do Pecado Member No.: 185 |
I repeat, both conjurers have to be in the presence of the spirit to perform the Binding and the Banishing. Hence they cannot be a bajillion miles apart to perform the operations at the same time, since the spirit cannot normally be in two places at once (actually there's an anecdotal story about the sort of nastiness that can ensue when someone puts that to the test in the Denver boxset). Furthermore, the summoner who chooses to Banish is forfeiting the protection of imediately performing a Binding—leaving himself open to attack (since he summoned the spirit you can be sure the spirit is inside any ward with the conjurer). |
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