Unofficial Unwired - do we need one?, Can we wait? I'm already confused Options

[silhouette]

I played SR3 for years and have just started playing SR4.

I am playing a hacker, and am coming into huge difficulties with the way the matrix works.

In Sr3 the matrix rules were complicated, but well defined. They took hours but you knew what you had to do. Now the matrix is simple but completely nebulous.
I had great hopes for the SR4 hacking, but it is entirely impossible to pin down what the hell is going on, what the hell you can do and what the hell accounts mean.

Would a car be connected to the matrix by wireless? Isn't that really very very dangerous? Surely any security system will use cables? If I want to hack into someones comlink can I pass my persona through the local Terminal, across UCAS under the ocean into france to a local terminal and attack his comlink? Do I need to hack all the intervening systems? If so how hard is that?

As far as the rules go My comlink upgraded to rating 6 with a bit of cash can run firewall 6. the renraku archology can also run firewall 6.
If I do an extended test to give me an Admin account I can get in and it won't stand a chance at spotting me and then what can I do? Can I then turn on all the sprinklers without being detected?
These are question GMs and Players need answering, so we could wait till Unwired, or we could make our own now?

Things I want to pin down:

*Better definitions of security
*Better definitions of connections and just what is connected. 1-way and 2 way. and how good a connection has to be before you can move your persona through it. (to me I don't see why a coffee machine would have the bandwidth to hack the host it is run on)
*What exactly can be done with Security or Admin accounts?
*How can one introduce tactics and manoeuvers into matrix combat?
*Is there any meaning to matrix combat? What happens if you defeat the IC, does the host just ignore you?
*Create a distinction between huge HOSTs and personal comlinks and devices.
*All the question of the FAQ posted previously.
*What can agents do? How many can a Node (not comlink) run, how many programs can they run?
*AR vs VR.
*deal with this hacking of cyberware question.


If I were to do a project like this it would be nice to know if other people would be interested in the product. I have some ideas already, for a start defining nodes better and bringing back HOSTs and security ratings.


Any comments.

[Adarael]

I'll attempt to answer these in stages...

1) If your car is connected to GridGuide, it will be connected to the matrix by wireless, yes. Probably slaved to the GridGuide mainframe. If it has any kind of automated systems that require full car control, yes, it will be on the matrix. If not, no - portions of it will be, but not the car itself. This is just an extension of the way things were in SR3 - instead of hacking GridGuide and altering the 'slave' module that's the car, you can just hack the car.

2) Only an idiot would keep a rigged security system on the matrix. Anything that's secure would be kept on-site without access to the matrix at large. Just because the game has changed doesn't mean the rules have, in an IC sense: keep your links tight, don't give possible trespassers the ABILITY to get access much less access itself, and if you want something safe never let off-site personel get near it.

3) You'd have to hack everything your Signal rating couldn't over-shoot, between you and France. If the shortest possible route to his commlink was terminal-UCAS-ocean-france-terminal... yes, you'd need to hack all of them.

4) You can run Firewall 6. The arcology can run 6... and higher. It states that it's rare to find ratings over 6, and that they're pretty much the 'hardened targets' of the SR world. The Arc is as hard as it gets. I'd give it 10-12. Give black sites an 8. Give the SIN database, Evo's accounting mainframe, and reactor control cores a 10.

5) You can turn on the sprinklers, but will be detected unless you use your admin access previously to turn off all logging functions. Or erase them after the fact, which is a valid command as an admin.

[RunnerPaul]

Not that this is an answer to any specific question that's been posed in this thread, but I've found that trying to understand SR4's hacking rules was easier for me when I approached it from a standpoint of "How do SR4's rules relate to computing in the real world" instead of "How can I take what I know about SR3's decking and apply it to SR4's hacking." The system underwent that radical of an overhaul all the way down to its core philosophies, that trying to find analogies in previous SR rulesets is ultimately counterproductive.

Of course, your mileage may vary.

[ShadowDragon]

I know Bull is doing an unofficial Matrix FAQ (check the sticky), and I know FP is working on an official FAQ and that it's "a priority." They've yet to be released however, as far as I can tell.

[Jaid]

[Adarael]

If you're attempting to illegally access all the stuff between you and a target on the internet, yes, you do have to hack it.

I was assuming that in the example, you'd be backing so that you don't have your connection automatically traced, and were being stealthy. If you don't care about that, no, you don't have to hack shit. But you're gonna leave a REALLY obvious trail.

[M.Fillmore.1138]

[silhouette]

And these are the things it would be great to have pinned down.
And if you did have to hack everything, some indication of how hard it should be.

[Jaid]

see, the thing is...

a large part of the reason why SR3 hacking took so long is probably *because* everything was explained.

the new system basically requires the GM to houserule more. a lot more. once you get used to it though, it's not bad.

[silhouette]

Jaid:

Not convinced. I can see your case, but I disagree. I think it was because all the tests used differetn things, there was loads of working out of target numbers, agents were different again, otaku were different again. you had loads of stuff for your deck with program multipliers, bandwidth, and memory. These are the things that ground it to a halt (or at least meant you sent your other players for pizza)

SR4 SHOULD be faster. The Dice mechanic is simply faster. No hacking pool, programs simpler. Ic = Agents = autonomous programs. These are things which SHOULD make the game more strightforward, but I don't think they do because they are left flapping in the wind.

And your last point I am sure is true. I imagine once you have a system it is easier. But why should we houserule to sort it? There is so much that shouldn't need it.


So bringing back to my original point, would an "unofficial unwired" be a good idea, perhaps you think yes? Because you say with a bunch of house rules it works well. Is that the case?
It sounds like you already HAVE pinned down some of these things I find nebulous. And you are saying that that helped.

[Bull]

Sorry I haven't been around much this last week. There was a plague going around Gen Con, and I caught it, and have been sick all week. :(

Anyways, I'm gonna start banging out stuff for the FAQ this weekend, but it will likely be a few weeks before it's done, as I'm gonna be running stuff by some of the other freelancers and FanPro folks, and some of them are busy and thus take a while to respond to things.

Bull

[Cynic project]

And here is another case of hard limits starting right the level of normal characters. You build you character and you hit the limit before you even start playing.

[Adarael]

Where exactly is this hard limit, Cynic?

I'm just not sure what you're referring to.

[Jaid]

[Zen Shooter01]

I find the Unwired World chapter very confusing. It's the thing I like the least about SR4.

But...between Bull's promised FAQ and the scheduled release of Unwired, I think that an unofficial "explanation" would only muddy the issue and very soon be superceded by official material.

[Jaid]

bull's FAQ is unofficial actually. he's just doing it cause he's such a nice guy =P

and as far as unwired replacing it... well, let's just say that "unwired" and "soon" probably don't belong together in that context =D unless of course you happen to consider waiting until <we don't actually know when> to be "soon".

personally, i don't =D

[Adam]

Don't tell Bull, but I'll totally be leaning on him to donate his research time to the FanPro SR4 FAQ. ;-)

[Cynic project]

[Adarael]

AHH. Yes. Sort of.
In the RAW, it suggests capping programs and hardware at 6. However, it also mentions that things can, theoretically, exceed that limit. Such as ultra-hard-core corporate systems.

Following that, I imagine ratings may exceed 6 in Unwired, and if you really need to, you can create rules to exceed the 6-cap, as far as hardware and software is concerned. You'd just have to houserule cost until Unwired.

[Samaels Ghost]

I just wish that there was something to spice up security instead of numbers. Oh snap, a 7! DAMN! ....pbbt

[Bull]

[Rotbart van Dain...]

I sure hope it won't add to already available confusion:

[cybertrucker]

The hard cap rule sux! I have been thinking of removing it, and instead making it cost twice as many karma then listed to advance. As for stats not skills. I dont see the reason why you couldnt have cyberware or magic for that matter bring your stats above the racial limit. If a human buys a complete arm replacement and loads it down to be stonger than a troll I dont have a problem with that. i havent implemented that yet, but have been giving it alot of thought.


On the topic of hacking cyberware I have had issues with that as well. Our technomancer always try to search for wireless cyberware but If its installed in the body I have a hard time saying its wireless the only thing I have let her play around with is wireless smartguns. Some of the old guns they have ran across realize this weakness and stick to old tech though in the campaign using wired smartguns. But the average corp security and newer runners think that being on the edge of technology is always best.

[LilithTaveril]

The hard caps are put in place because the system is not designed to work without them.

As for the hacking rules: Unless it uses a skinlink or lacks any form of programming, it's probably wireless in some ways. This includes cybernetic implants, but excludes bioware. So, yes, you can potentially hack and take over someone with an implanted commlink.

[Bull]