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> Insect Spirit Clarifications, since someone asked about threats
Demerzel
post Aug 22 2006, 01:29 AM
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1) Does a binding ritual need to be performed in order to have a insect inhabit a host? i.e. does the dawn/dusk limitation continue while they are in the inhabitation process, or does the process inhibit that? p100, "An inhabiting spirit permanently merges with a prepared vessel, [. . .]" This leads me to believe bound is not a problem since unmerging due to dawn/dusk is a null issue.

2) Hybrid forms add their force to the victim's physical attributes, but what happens for Flesh Forms? The p100 sidebar does not mention their attributes at all, only their memories, skills, and abilities. Note abilities are considered seperate from attributes in the hybrid form section.

3) Do the spirits retain the use of all their powers while in a hybrid/flesh form? If so what does the natural weapons power look like? Or does a flesh form have essentially a form of Killing Hands?

4) Do the sentances regarding banishing and DNI from hybrids remain in effect for flesh forms? If so does that imply something about adding the spirits power to the hosts attributes answering #2 above?

5) Based on all this what is the maximum rate of inhabitation for an insect shaman? Basically the fastest an insect shaman could invest is 1 per day since the vessel prep time has an interval of 1 day, assuming he always succeds on his first roll. Or can he use the skill power to grant a worker with enchanting and then have a fleet of workers busily enchanting away? Maybe even gathering the enchanting materials...

This one I want to know because I'm using a insect shaman as a major threat in my current campaign and I'm wokdering how fast I can consider his conjuring rate so I know how much down time to give him from his nefarious plotting in order to repopulate his hive. 1 Per day seems amazingly slow, and that's as fast as it's going to get and the shaman gets no days off... Also does SM give any idea of costs for regents?
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SL James
post Aug 22 2006, 06:29 AM
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QUOTE (Demerzel @ Aug 21 2006, 07:29 PM)
3)  Do the spirits retain the use of all their powers while in a hybrid/flesh form?  If so what does the natural weapons power look like?  Or does a flesh form have essentially a form of Killing Hands?

Since most of my experience with flesh forms has been Mantids, this came up a long time ago, and... yeah. I usually just treat it like a form of killing hands where the physical damage they inflict represents the fact that they aren't metahuman bodies and so, yes, they can punch right through your chest.
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Synner
post Aug 22 2006, 07:46 AM
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QUOTE (Demerzel)
1) Does a binding ritual need to be performed in order to have a insect inhabit a host? i.e. does the dawn/dusk limitation continue while they are in the inhabitation process, or does the process inhibit that? p100, "An inhabiting spirit permanently merges with a prepared vessel, [. . .]" This leads me to believe bound is not a problem since unmerging due to dawn/dusk is a null issue.

No, Binding ritual is needed (though at the GMs discretion a ritual may be needed for the Insect shaman to add his bonus dice to the Inhabitation roll). Inhabitation is a spirit power, and requires a prepared vessel. The dawn/dusk limitation and Evanescence are halted when Inhabitation is begun.

QUOTE
2) Hybrid forms add their force to the victim's physical attributes, but what happens for Flesh Forms? The p100 sidebar does not mention their attributes at all, only their memories, skills, and abilities. Note abilities are considered seperate from attributes in the hybrid form section.

Inhabitation spirits retain their powers in all forms. A Flesh form is simply a very successful hybrid merge.

QUOTE
3) Do the spirits retain the use of all their powers while in a hybrid/flesh form? If so what does the natural weapons power look like? Or does a flesh form have essentially a form of Killing Hands?

Inhabitation spirits retain their powers in all forms. How powers "look" was kept intentionally vague because it could vary significantly depending on the quality of the merge. In the case of hybrids this might a visibly insectile member, while in the case of a flesh form it might be hardened bone or subdermal chitinous deposits or even a Killing Hands style effect.

QUOTE
4) Do the sentances regarding banishing and DNI from hybrids remain in effect for flesh forms? If so does that imply something about adding the spirits power to the hosts attributes answering #2 above?

All the effects of hybrid forms extend to flesh forms since a Flesh form is simply successful hybrid merge.

QUOTE
5) Based on all this what is the maximum rate of inhabitation for an insect shaman? Basically the fastest an insect shaman could invest is 1 per day since the vessel prep time has an interval of 1 day, assuming he always succeds on his first roll. Or can he use the skill power to grant a worker with enchanting and then have a fleet of workers busily enchanting away? Maybe even gathering the enchanting materials...

Magical Skills cannot be granted via the Skill power, so the workers cannot enchant, however workers could probably handle gathering, after all that's traditionally what workers are for in hives. ;)

QUOTE
This one I want to know because I'm using a insect shaman as a major threat in my current campaign and I'm wondering how fast I can consider his conjuring rate so I know how much down time to give him from his nefarious plotting in order to repopulate his hive. 1 Per day seems amazingly slow, and that's as fast as it's going to get and the shaman gets no days off... Also does SM give any idea of costs for regents?

1 a day is the default under the rules. However, in bigger hives with a Queen you may want to consider having more than one shaman per hive doing the enchanting while the Queen brings over the insect spirits proper.

Normal Reagents are in the Magical Goods chapter, though what an Insect shaman may percieve as an appropriate reagent might turn out to be more yucky than usual.
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SL James
post Aug 22 2006, 08:33 AM
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QUOTE (Synner @ Aug 22 2006, 01:46 AM)
while in the case of a flesh form it might be hardened bone or subdermal chitinous deposits or even a Killing Hands style effect.

You're no fun. That's the closest I get to anime style is having a really hot, seemingly mundane woman rip someone's head off in a fight.
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Synner
post Aug 22 2006, 11:13 AM
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QUOTE (SL James)
QUOTE (Synner @ Aug 22 2006, 01:46 AM)
while in the case of a flesh form it might be hardened bone or subdermal chitinous deposits or even a Killing Hands style effect.

You're no fun. That's the closest I get to anime style is having a really hot, seemingly mundane woman rip someone's head off in a fight.

Hey, I did leave in Killing Hands. ;)
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Lazerface
post Aug 22 2006, 11:30 AM
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Do all mantid shaman babes know praying mantis kung fu?
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Critias
post Aug 22 2006, 11:35 AM
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I'd say the easiest way to describe it is just horrific damage meted out by truly inhuman strength. Superman probably hasn't got "Killing Hands," but if he were to just grab and twist (or even just grab and squeeze, or plain old stick his hand through the skull of) a normal human being, there'd be plenty of blood spraying around. Having spirits fight in the same way (or vampires, now that I think about it) might be a good way to hit home their inhumanity -- they tear people to shreds simply by not caring about their physical host (you can hit someone awful hard when you have no fear of damaging your own bones), and being physically strong enough to rend people limb from limb with ease.

In a way, that's more terrifying -- a seemingly normal human being just sticking his fist through someone's chest -- than something more flashy or obviously dangerous (nasty claws, flaming auras, or what-have-you).
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Demerzel
post Aug 22 2006, 03:04 PM
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Excellent Synner thanks.
One last thing then, is the magically enhanced attributes from spirit inhabitation limited by racial caps? Or is my NPC troll gang leader Force 5 flesh form truely as scarry as I think he is?
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Synner
post Aug 22 2006, 03:08 PM
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QUOTE (Demerzel @ Aug 22 2006, 03:04 PM)
One last thing then, is the magically enhanced attributes from spirit inhabitation limited by racial caps?  Or is my NPC troll gang leader Force 5 flesh form truely as scarry as I think he is?

My ruling would be that after Inhabitation, the merged entity is no longer (meta)human and hence no longer subject to metahuman racial caps (ie. Yes, he'd be as scary as you think he is). Note however that lower Mental Atts generally skew Inhabitation towards hybrids and true forms.
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Demerzel
post Aug 22 2006, 04:54 PM
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My logic is that the Shaman want's to use this gang as a source of "Recruitment" and putting a little something special into the Gang Leader would provide volumes of benefit at a later date/time. The ability to throw his binding dice into the Targets side would make up for a lot of lacking mental attributes.

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Demerzel
post Aug 22 2006, 06:37 PM
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And the questions never end:

Do hybrid/flesh forms use the initiative of the spirit, or initiative based on the stats of the form?

Do they get the spirit's 2 initiative passes or just 1? Or is it based on the cyber in the form since they can benefit from cyber.

Can you go "under the knife" as a hybrid/flesh form and implant cyber, or does immunity to normal weapons mean the surgeon has to have a scalpel weapon focus?

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Synner
post Aug 23 2006, 11:19 AM
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Subject, of course, to official confirmation, here are my takes on the answers:
QUOTE (Demerzel @ Aug 22 2006, 06:37 PM)
Do hybrid/flesh forms use the initiative of the spirit, or initiative based on the stats of the form?

They should use initiative based on the stats of the form.

QUOTE
Do they get the spirit's 2 initiative passes or just 1?  Or is it based on the cyber in the form since they can benefit from cyber.

Admittedly IPs in Inhabitation spirits are unclear. However, our approach on Street Magic was very clearly to streamline the rules for Possession and Inhabitation as much as possible (meaning the intention was for the spirit's IPs to be used in both). What isn't as clear is whether a vessel's pre-Inhabitation IP modifiers are cumulative with the spirit's IPs. For balance, I suggest that in such cases only the higher IP value count (the augmented vessel's or the spirit's).

I'll look into adding something about this to a FAQ or future Street Magic errata.

Note - To be honest, I've ruled that any IP modifiers are always the hybrid form's not the spirit's in my games. This helps balance some of the advantages Inhabitating spirits have over Possessing spirits, but YMMV.

QUOTE
Can you go "under the knife" as a hybrid/flesh form and implant cyber, or does immunity to normal weapons mean the surgeon has to have a scalpel weapon focus?

Yes the surgeon will need a seriously good scalpel.
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knasser
post Aug 23 2006, 04:23 PM
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QUOTE (Critias)
I'd say the easiest way to describe it is just horrific damage meted out by truly inhuman strength. Superman probably hasn't got "Killing Hands," but if he were to just grab and twist (or even just grab and squeeze, or plain old stick his hand through the skull of) a normal human being, there'd be plenty of blood spraying around. Having spirits fight in the same way (or vampires, now that I think about it) might be a good way to hit home their inhumanity -- they tear people to shreds simply by not caring about their physical host (you can hit someone awful hard when you have no fear of damaging your own bones), and being physically strong enough to rend people limb from limb with ease.

In a way, that's more terrifying -- a seemingly normal human being just sticking his fist through someone's chest -- than something more flashy or obviously dangerous (nasty claws, flaming auras, or what-have-you).


All true and atmospheric. The troll player with higher strength will be wanting to do the same though.

My version is that even though it's a good merge (Flesh Form, now), doesn't mean you can't have a few spirit traits tucked away. E.g. Little claws that extend from finger tips or tiny gripping spikes like in the Spiderman film. Could be quite unpleasant when they slap you round the face and take your cheek with it.
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