question about magical initiation and essence loss Options

[Adept_Damo]

Let me start with an example to illustrate my question.
Say a character has 3.8 essence due to cyber/bioware. That character is an adept/mage/shaman and they have a magic rating of 3.

The question is does initiation raise they're possible magic rating max to 7, but effectively doesn't raise it at all because they are limited to a rating of 3 because of lowered essence.

Or does initiation raise their magic rating to +1 of whatever they're effective limit was, so say it would allow they're character to be able to raise they're magic rating to 4, which was previously limited to 3 due to essence loss.

[DireRadiant]

[Adept_Damo]

thanks

[Cabral]

A mage with no cyberware has a 6 Essence and can have a 6 Magic. Let's assume he does. Then he initiates once. He can now raise his Magic to 7. If he does, he could get 5.8 essence in cyberware and still have a 1 Magic attribute (and a Maximum of 1)- not that it would be reccomended.

[Adept_Damo]

I was thinking more along the lines of it being good for an adept because they could split between adept powers and bioware, and add either as they progressed through initiation and raising their magic attribute.

[Jaid]

basically, the thing to look out for is that as soon as you go below 1 essence, you can't initiate any more, so don't go beyond that point.

but yes, certain cyberware/bioware is definitely worth it from a min/max perspective. in particular, synaptic boosters are much cheaper in terms of magic loss if you only compare them directly to how much magic you would need to get the equivalent adept power.

of course, if you need a high actual magic rating for anything, that may change your perspective...

[lorechaser]

That's my plan.

[Cabral]

[DireRadiant]

[Jaid]

no, i'm referring to the rule that you can only initiate as often as your magic attribute.

if you remove 6 points from your magic attribute, the best case scenario is for your magic rating to equal your initiate grade (since magic maximum = 6 + initiate grade - essence loss).

for example:

Bob the (almost) burnout adept is using too much cyber for his own good. he started off with 6 points of magic. he then initiated once, bought his magic up once, and then blew 5.9 points of essence on cyber and bioware, leaving him with a magic of 1, which is equal to his initiate grade. because his magic score is equal to his initiate grade, he can no longer choose to initiate, since you may only initate as often as your magic score.

or, at a later time:

Bob the (not-quite-so) burnout adept waits a little bit longer before picking up his cyber. this time, he gets to magic 10, and 4 initiate grades. he then gets the same gear as in the first example, dropping his magic to 4. his magic score of 4 is, once again, equal to his initiate grade, and therefore he can no longer initiate again.

or, as a third and final example:

Bob the (metagamed character) burnout adept decides he's gonna try to beat the system, and initiates 5 times, and boosts his magic once (so he's a grade 11 initiate, with 7 magic). next he gets 5.5 essence worth of 'ware, figuring he's gonna buy up his (much reduced, and therefore possibly cheaper, if his GM has no spine) magic with karma. his magic drops to 1, and he has 5 grades under his belt, so he figures he can now buy up his magic to 2 for next to no karma. however, because he cannot have an initiate grade higher than his magic, the GM drops him down to 1 grade, and then proceeds to drop an orbital cow on him as a warning to all metagaming munchkins out there. of course, if the GM was feeling nice, he may have allowed Bob to keep one of the metamagic techniques he picked up at grades 2-5, since you can know an extra metamagic technique by karma expenditure, and Bob just watched a crapload of karma get sucked into the black vortex of sucktasticness.

note that some liberties are taken in example 3 (in that a crazy GM might consider allowing Bob to boost his magic up to 5 again, since no rules specificy what happens when your magic rating drops below your initiate grade to be honest), but basically that right there is why even mages who initiate to boost their magic can be called burnouts when they have less than 1 essence.

of course, they could also just take a geas...

[Cabral]

[Conskill]

[Cabral]

Just a reminder, not a correction. :)

[Jaid]

yes, i knew that. if you'd like i can make example 4. it will be pretty much exactly the same as example 2, except it will feature the numbers 13 and 7 instead of 10 and 4.

and also, bob will be either dead from old age, or a young IE, or maybe just someone with the right kind of pact. but otherwise, the same.