Whats a good amount of nuyen Options

[thephoenix]

I'm just wondering how much players should get paid per run on average.

[the_dunner]

It depends how long you want the campaign to run, and how many runs you let the PCs go through before they need to make another lifestyle payment. It also depends on how many hidden expenses the adventures have. (If they need to spend 5000¥ to get past a critical step in the scenario, then you probably should allow for that when you're budgeting the 'run.)

If you let the team do 4 runs per game month (1/week) and you want them to maintain a low lifestyle, then remember that they need to have 2000¥ in their pockets at the end of the month. So, that's 500¥ minimum profit they need each run.

If your team keeps their operating expenses low (say, 500¥ in supplies and bribes per character) then 1000-1500¥ might be a good way to do it -- if you want a campaign where character growth is pretty slow. If you want character growth faster, then bump it into the 3000-5000¥ range.

If they're a bit less efficient, or are trying to maintain a higher lifestyle, then either of those values need to be bumped up.

[Teulisch]

look at lifestyle costs. look at expeses. add em together. the runners should show at least some profit after the run is done. Their risking their lives in criminal activity for pay. they should get paid well.

the published SR4 adventure, on the run, has base run pay at 10,000, before modification for negotiation. and this is for a 'simple sntach and grab', with a new team of 400 BP shadowrunner straight from chargen.

[Da9iel]

Each!!!???

[ShadowDragon]

10,000 total, not each.

If the PCs are newbies, they should struggle a little to get cash to cover lifestyle and expenses until they get a better rep. But don't make the amount so low that they have to resort to stealing cars to make ends meet.

[Da9iel]

Thank goodness!

[laughingowl]

As a GM this is something I have to very alot.

Really depends on the group.

How much the spend.... (if they live high life style, but not 'munchkin tweak-fest') I am usally more free with money.

Look like you are rich and people tend to expect to pay more......
Look like a bum and people pay less.


Now if the group is the type to try to claim not to spend a penny, and bank their pay roll. I get a little stingier (dont spent money street rep suffers generally) AND I keep a close track of what they do spend on and more importantly what they dont.... (rating 2 fake sin might be fine for the ganger that doesnt leave the barrens... but the player that thought he could fly to Tir ta Nog on it.... /shakes head)

[Crusher Bob]

[repost]

[silhouette]

I really don't get the low pays for SR4.
When Shadowrunning is less profitable than ripping off scooters and selling them to a chop shop you surely are not paying enough.

A johnson should be paying for competence, efficiency and silence. Those things should cost money, and lots of it.

Lets say you earn 3500 for a run (each) as people are suggesting why not just steal something and flog it. Burglary carries much lower penalties, has less risk and pays a lot more.

A biker gang has parked their vehicles outside a club. Ripping off a couple of choppers would be worth (even at 25% cost) 6000. Significantly less risk than going anywhere near a corp.


I would have said a difficult run against a decent target for start characters should be worth at least 8-10K each. For more experienced runners a lot more.

*edit I really should have read that last post edit*

[knasser]

Bear in mind that some characters require :nuyen: for development and some characters require karma. Okay, the Samurai can put that karma into useful skills and the mage can put the :nuyen: into useful foci and equipment, but basically, if you have a low-income game where the players are scraping around to cover their lifestyle costs, but the karma comes in at the usual pace, you're going to have samurai with Wired Reflexes I and magicians initiated up the wazoo.

I like a gritty and realistic game, but that doesn't preclude players maintaining a good lifestyle. Heck - the wages of Sin come on unmarked credsticks, you know?

[Serbitar]

I have a chapter about that in my SGP (p. 14-15) which can act a s a guideline.

I personally recommend a karma to Nyen ratio of about 1: 1500, and thus make the typical run (3 evenings 5 hours real time each) 10 karma and 15000 Nuyen per player.

[thephoenix]

What about games that say last one evening and at most 4hours?

[RainOfSteel]

[Serbitar]

[Conskill]

A Low lifestyle costs 12,000 a year to maintain. Since they're low, I'll assume they have nothing except what's covered in a lifestyle.

If your Shadowrunner is not making over 12k a year, he's better off working as a janitor.

A Middle lifestyle costs 60,000 a year to maintain. I'll call it 62k to add a little overhead for random not-lifestyle-covered purchases.

If your Shadowrunner is not making over 62k a year, he's better off working as a clerk.

[Samaels Ghost]

I think ours made about 300,000 in 2070.

note:I gave them too much. Their characters are all biowared up. Don'd give so much money out.

[FriendoftheDork]

Guys, although 10k per run seems small compared to costs and average wages, remember these guys are probably SINless and can't get a job even as a janitor! Which means stealing stuff, robbery etc. is the only alternative. And the local crime lords might not like freeloaders, at least not the ones not paying sufficent tribute.

Of course they could defend themselves, or even directly fight these groups, but then it might not be that much safer than the typical run to begin with.

And lets not forget that stealing stuff is dangerous if it's worthwhile, and it's typically safer to be given missions where the johnson plans on success, because then you are probably not going too high, upsetting the wrong people (or at least pleasing the right people so it balances out), and the johnsons intel is often pretty good. That way there's less unpleasant suprises (that was dunkelzhan's account?).

Just look at the warrens... where people struggle to make a living through illegal acticities... and the car thieves seldom get rich... just the ones at the top. No mafioso or gang leader is going to get a share of your hard-earned run salary though ;)

That said, the average life of a well-to do clerk or specalist in the corp life is alot better than a shadowrunner. Middle lifestile and no risk is not that bad, or perhaps even high lifestyle. Few would chose shadowrunning rather than this.

[emo samurai]

But the thing is, after a certain point, the professionals in the team, hackers, mages, etc., will find much better ways to make money. Hackers will make programs, and mages will enchant gold and orichalcum.

[Gort]

Yeah, I've paid 15,000 for a missing person job (find my daughter, here is her picture, girl turns out to be caught in the middle of a gang war) and 20,000 for a "stop large gang attacking our retail outlets" job, before bonuses, for a three man team of rookie shadowrunners.

As people have said before, you don't want your runners getting more money from what they loot on the job than what they're getting paid by the Johnson, or it just becomes unrealistic, ESPECIALLY when you consider that the runners are often people with 250,000 worth of cyberware in them, or belong to the fraction of a percent of people who can properly control magical powers.

Shadowrunners are not the people at the bottom of the food chain that FriendoftheDork is describing - they're elite, and their pay should reflect this.

[Conskill]

More accurately, Shadowrunners can be wherever on the food chain the GM wants to start them at. It's entirely possible that a group of thugs fresh out of the Barrens with one tenous contact among the lot of them will call themselves Shadowrunners. The novahot team of elite commandos that just iced an Immortal prince of Tir Tirnagire and got away without a loss will also call themselves Shadowrunners.

Same job description, obviously not on the same pay scale.

[Bull]

[Rotbart van Dain...]

The last games I ran were targeted at 100K¥ for the team, 10K¥ up front, no bonuses, no expenses - here is a picture and a starting point, go and get it for me.
Why? Pretty simple:
The total payoff was roughly the actual marketprice of the pieces of art they had to aquire.
Paying much less only screams 'cut the deal and look for a better one' - there are many collectors out there.

Basically, it's the market value of the job that dictates payoff, the qualifications of the runners are an implicit necessity... unless you want overqualified runners walking your dog, in which case you will pay the estimated market value of the jobs they are going to miss while working for you.

[Zen Shooter01]

Shadowrunners have in-demand skills, and they should get paid accordingly. A Street Samurai who can kick a Toyota to death can name a high price when an employer is shopping for melee skills. A Hacker who can effortlessly subvert the everyday nodes for four clicks in every direction is someone who can ask for a high salary. So yes, they should be making 5k-15k each per run, when a run is a penetration theft, extraction, assassination, etc.

But.

The market is fairly crowded and those jobs are fairly scarce. The team isn't going to get more than one or two a month.

Also, you can structure a run so that it stretches out over several game sessions ("We want five people killed in five different places in one night"), which slows down the rate at which the players pile up the nuyen.

And you can fill in a lot of time with "day in the life" runs that don't pay a lot of nuyen, like your corporate wageslave contact can't pay, but if you help her get the promotion she'll use her new position to help you in the future. Or your sister and her husband just added to their real estate holdings but, oops, can you help them out with this ghost problem?

Don't forget too that bribes, disposable identities, paying off hackers to delete your criminal record, etc., etc., costs nuyen too.

[FriendoftheDork]

[Dudukain]

You need to make plenty. When you consider the cost of a shadowrun:

-Ammunition[Roughly 100-300 :nuyen: per run]
-Breaking and Entering Gear[Maybe. Thermite gel, climbing kits, etc.]
-Transportation[May not matter that much]
-Medical Fees

And that's just what it costs to run. Consider what they need to be better runners:

-Focuses
-Cyber/Bioware
-New Weaponry
-Faster Transport.

I know. My character is currently doing a bunch of jobs for a mob boss to score a used cargo helicopter to operate a smuggling business.

Factor in all this, and they should be making atleast 2500 :nuyen: per run.