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> Some magic questions
JuicyFruits
post Sep 3 2006, 01:50 AM
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Hi there :P

I tryed searching the forums for the answer, but i couldnt find anything :P So... here it comes.

I'm creating a mage for SR3, I'm nearly done. But there is still some things I'm not too sure ^^

I've got increase reflexes +3, and the drain is +3(D). Ouchie. I thought about limiting the drain with a fetish. Can i do that? Even if I only have the spell at force 1? ( can it be reduced to 'force 0' for drain purpose? )

Also, I'm trying to find some skill that could go well with sorcery.. I first thought about using a staff, but my strenght is low.. so.. maybe pistols?

Thanks :P
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Catsnightmare
post Sep 3 2006, 02:15 AM
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Yes, you can use A fetish to reduce drain, sort of. Basically you can learn a fetish-limited version of the spell that reduces it's Force by 1 for the purpose of drain.
Example: The spell has for example a force of 6, thus normally the drain is 6(D) (Force/2 +3 at Deadly level) with the Fetish it makes the Force a 5 for drain resistance purposes thus giving you a drain code of 5D (as in Force 5 divided by 2 rounded down = 2 and the +3 (D)
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JuicyFruits
post Sep 3 2006, 02:52 AM
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thanks, but hm... is there a 'minimum' drain level? If i use a force 4 stunbolt ( drain is : -1 (damage level) ) with a fetish, the drain is (3/2)-1 = 0.5. Rounded down = 0.

This is impossible i guess?

In the case of increased reflex+3, I just realized a fetish would be totaly useless, because the drain is:

(1/2)+3=3.5. round down=3
with a fetish (0/2)+3=3

Same thing.

Is this correct?

Now another question, this time about exclusive spells. The manual isnt really clear about it : its impossible to cast an exclusive spell when you are sustaining something. What about sustaining focus? Is this allowed?
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Shockwave_IIc
post Sep 3 2006, 04:39 AM
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Nope, Exclusive magical actions can not (AFAIK) be combined with any other magical action.
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Trax
post Sep 3 2006, 04:39 AM
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The lowest force would be 1, which you should be able to deal with at anytime. As for the reflexes it would be Force 4 (F1+3 spell drain) Drain, then divide by 2 and subtract 1 for the Fetish. Or was it subtract 1 and then divide by 2? Either way, it comes to F1.
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JuicyFruits
post Sep 3 2006, 12:17 PM
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QUOTE (Shockwave_IIc)
Nope, Exclusive magical actions can not (AFAIK) be combined with any other magical action.

ok.

I had the impression that a sustaining focus was sustaining the spell for you, and that it didnt require any attention at all : allowing you to cast exclusive spell without dropping the sustained spell

:(
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Pendaric
post Sep 3 2006, 02:33 PM
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Correct, you are not considered to be sustaining the spell when it is being sustained by a sustaining focus or an elemental. As such it will continue and you can do an exclusive action with out dropping it.
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Bodak
post Sep 3 2006, 03:24 PM
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QUOTE (JuicyFruits)
I had the impression that a sustaining focus was sustaining the spell for you, and that it didnt require any attention at all : allowing you to cast exclusive spell without dropping the sustained spell
If you have spells being sustained by sustaining foci, you do not have +2 TN per spell (which you normally would for sustaining spells) because the foci are doing the sustaining for you. You can also perform exclusive activities such as summoning and projecting; if you didn't have sustaining foci you would have to drop sustaining spells to be able to perform an exclusive action.

QUOTE (JuicyFruits)
The manual isnt really clear about it : its impossible to cast an exclusive spell when you are sustaining something. What about sustaining focus? Is this allowed?
Activating a focus requires an action so you can not use a sustaining focus to sustain an exclusive-limited spell because you are concentrating exclusively on casting the spell and so cannot simultaneously activate the sustaining focus. This is explicitly stated in the book. (This goes for a spell learnt as exclusive for either reducing the karma cost of learning the spell or the TN of resisting drain.)

You can however cast an exclusive spell while a sustaining focus sustains another spell.

Generally when considering limiting spells, it is good to use 'exclusive' for instant spells because you're (virtually) never going to be casting more than one at once. And they are often combat spells with variable damage levels so if you can reduce your drain TN by 1 that's a good thing.

Fetish limitation is good for spells you're going to sustain especially at force 6 (or any even numbered force). Since fetishes and foci are made using the same process (and fetishes are far simpler and cheaper than foci) a sustaining focus can itself qualify as being the fetish for your fetish limited spell. If your spell is cast at force 6 (17% chance per die of being successfully resisted) you resist drain as if it was force 5 (ie your resist TN after division by 2 and adding modifiers is one lower). Don't cast a fetish limited spell at an odd force level; eg casting at force 5 (33% chance per die of being successfully resisted) you resist drain as if it was force 4... and 4/2 == 5/2 so you get no advantage on the drain test but your victims get a significant increase in their chance to resist.

QUOTE (JuicyFruits)
I thought about limiting the drain with a fetish. Can i do that? Even if I only have the spell at force 1? ( can it be reduced to 'force 0' for drain purpose? )
You sure can, but as you later discovered, the exclusive limitation is beneficial for odd or even force spells whereas the fetish limitation is ineffective for spells with odd force. And increased reflexes is a spell you typically want to sustain. If you want to make its drain easier, and you are quite happy to keep your power to yourself, you can learn a modified version of increased reflexes +3 "caster only". This means you can't boost your chummer's reaction (but then, he's probably got cyberware reaction boosting anyway, or an adept power, edge, etc etc) you can only boost your own reaction but the drain is much easier.

QUOTE (JuicyFruits)
thanks, but hm... is there a 'minimum' drain level? If i use a force 4 stunbolt ( drain is : -1 (damage level) ) with a fetish, the drain is (3/2)-1 = 0.5. Rounded down = 0.
There is a minimum TN for all tests, including resisting drain. Limitations and spell design effects can reduce drain a great deal but in the end you roll against a minimum of 2(Light). Even if you were to cast some hypothetical spell at force 1 with the exclusive limitation and and it was a -3(-3) spell you would still resist 2(Light) drain (so if you cast this particular spell at or below 10(Deadly) you'd still only have to resist 2(Light)).

So for your stunbolt example, ((4-1)/2)-1=0 as you say. So if you cast 4(Moderate) that would work out to be raw drain 0(Moderate) which you would have to resist at 2(Moderate) since the minimum TN is 2. In which case, there is no point casting the spell at force 4 or lower (since you're going to be resisting drain at TN 2 whether or not you make it easy for your victim to resist the spell). If you cast it at force 6, ((6-1)/2)-1=1 or at force 8, ((8-1)/2)-1=2. So if you can cast it at force 8, do so - it will be much harder for your target to resist but just as easy for you to resist as if you'd cast it at force 1.
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JuicyFruits
post Sep 3 2006, 06:41 PM
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thanks a lot Bodak, that really helped :)

I dropped reflex+3 but took spell design as a knowledge skill instead, to be able to 'design' one with the caster only limit. :D
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Catsnightmare
post Sep 3 2006, 08:42 PM
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QUOTE (JuicyFruits)
thanks, but hm... is there a 'minimum' drain level? If i use a force 4 stunbolt ( drain is : -1 (damage level) ) with a fetish, the drain is (3/2)-1 = 0.5. Rounded down = 0.

This is impossible i guess?

In the case of increased reflex+3, I just realized a fetish would be totaly useless, because the drain is:

(1/2)+3=3.5. round down=3
with a fetish (0/2)+3=3

Same thing.

Is this correct?

Now another question, this time about exclusive spells. The manual isnt really clear about it : its impossible to cast an exclusive spell when you are sustaining something. What about sustaining focus? Is this allowed?

Yes there is a minimum. In any given test the minimum Target Number is 2, as a 1 is always considered a failure. (Correct me if I'm wrong anyone)

IIRC the -1 for the fetish (or -2 if it's an exclusive spell) is subtracted from the spell force before you divide it by 2, then you round down if needed and then the +/- from the spell drain code is calculated.
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